Barry 0:00

Erm So Justine, hi. How are you?

justine 0:04

Barry. I'm a little bit nervous, but it's exciting

Barry 0:09

Yeah. 'Cause just tell everybody who we've got, on the, on the, on the podcast today

justine 0:13

the highly esteemed Nicholas Bird, who also happens to be my husband

Barry 0:20

Wow. Oh, that's so exciting. It's so exciting. And, and yeah, 'cause he's sort of been through, well, watched you go through what you, you know, y- your, your journey of, of finding alcohol freedom. And, through the ripple effect thereof, he's sort of seen all the benefits and, and, and he's done the same thing. He's, he, he, he now, no longer drinks either, does he?

justine 0:39

It's just, I don't know, you and I have been talking about this, over the years that it's, it's really incredible when you have people playing back to you the words, the methodology, the ideas, curiosity, freedom, choice, all these things that we're not forcing down anybody else's neck. We're just living it, and that ripple effect is incredibly powerful. So we just wanted to explore that a little bit and share, some time with Nick

Barry 1:07

Well, brilliant. Yeah, I mean, so let's not waste any more time. Let's, let's get Nick on

justine 1:10

Let's do it Welcome everybody to the Alcohol Freedom Finders. This week I have the most exceptional guest that's joining our host Barry and I. It's my husband. and we just thought it was a wonderful opportunity to look at, what it's like for somebody else, to live with someone who's found freedom and what the ripple effect really is. So, welcome husband Nick

nick 1:37

Hello, wife Justine. Lovely to see you

Barry 1:40

Yeah. Welcome, Nick. Yeah, it's great to, great to have you on. I mean, that ripple effect, we've, we've, we've talked about it, mentioned it bef- before, but we've not sort of interviewed anybody who's actually been through it. So, so how has that been for you? I mean, you, you, you were previously a, a, a, someone who drank and, and now less so I, I'm, I, I, I've understood

nick 2:01

Yeah. Well, I think it's probably now been the last probably three, nearly four years where I haven't drunk. it's definitely off the back of, of Justine, her work, and just being around her. So you mentioned that ripple effect. I think it was slow to start off with. I was curious about what she was doing. I was never a massive drinker before, but I'd go out and I'd, you know, have a few drinks and, and, suffer the consequences the, the next day and so on. but no, I think I probably just saw how it was improving Justine's life and the people that she was working with. So I was curious, think it's interesting, I've heard that word a few times about being alcohol curious and alcohol-free curious, and I was like, "Okay, I wonder what that's gonna be like." So bit by bit I tried and I've st- stuck with it and it hasn't been a, a chore. It's been a joy

justine 2:43

Hmm. Amazing. And you know, it's quite textbook, this Naked Mind methodology to have a curiosity mindset and to take that approach. We have a, you know, just a little bit by little bit approach. If there was a struggle with it, maybe in that moment when I was doing it and you weren't, what would... do you think that those struggles were, and how did you overcome those?

nick 3:06

I think there's probably a, a couple of different things. There's probably home life and work life. So I think that, home life, a lot of our socializing together was that classic, let's, let's share a bottle of wine together, so it felt like our shared time t-together. And, when that sharing wasn't happening, I didn't really want to have the half bottle or certainly never have the bottle of wine to, to myself, and so it did take away a little bit of a shared togetherness, and I think we had to find other ways of a shared togetherness. We did a lot of walking, and I think we found other ways of, finding our, our relationship there. I think work was initially a struggle 'cause I work in the investment world in a sales job, and so much of that is predicated around socializing, let's go out for a beer and all that sort of stuff. And that was quite hard to just-- don't know. In some ways, I would hide it. I would say, "Oh no, I'm driving later," or I would use excuses rather than say, "No, I don't drink." But I don't do that now. I'm very honest about it and open about it

Barry 4:03

That's really interesting. I, I know that wife, Annette, has gone through a similar, transition. So to, to begin with, she almost, she would, she would almost go out more just to sort of rebel against the fact that I wasn't doing it. And, and but, but slowly over, over time she sort of, sort of through osmosis of, of, of, of watching and, and, and overhearing podcasts that I listen to or things that I listen to that she's, she's just realized, oh, yeah, actually, you know, and seeing the benefits in me that she's, she's seen the same thing that, that are actually Yeah, it, it was something that she was curious about and, and, and wanted to get, yeah, wanted to try and, and, you know, she's, she's not had a drink I don't think for, for, for three or four years either. So it's, it's, it, it really, it's a really a, a real thing. what, have there been over the, over the, the, the, the, the last couple years have there been things that surprised you about, about how it, how life has been without drinking?

nick 4:55

I think I've been... I was maybe surprised at how some friends were difficult about it,

justine 5:01

Hmm.

nick 5:01

little bit sort of, "Come on, just have a beer. It's fine." And that was always a bit sort of annoying if, if, if I'm honest. But maybe that sort of showed the friends I want to be with. I've probably been surprised actually how little I need it. And actually, when I, when I go out, and I thought perhaps I needed that social lubricant to help me sort of be a bit, a bit more up and, I don't know, vivacious and so on. I didn't really need it at all, and I would certainly find going to watch football with friends, which would always be that classic two, three pints. I really don't miss that at all. That's probably been the most surpri- the, the surprise is how little it really added and how much not drinking has given. And that's why it doesn't feel like a struggle. A lot of people say, "Wow, that's amazing. How, how do you do that?" Well, I don't feel like-- I'm just doing something nice to myself, not taking away something that, that I should be doing, that I'm denying myself anything. So there's definitely a mind shift there.

justine 5:51

Yeah, that's incredible. And for people who are still teetering on the, We look, we- well, from one side of the fence looking at the other, looking ahead to what would a, a life without alcohol look like, we, we sort of think, you know, Christmas is ruined, birthdays are canceled, football's over, nobody's gonna wanna hang out with me. We sort of think all these things because there's so much societal conditioning around alcohol. and one of the things we find in, in community is that, it isn't as difficult as you thought it might be. So it's great that you voluntarily say that, without us prompting. so on the flip side of that, what other things that you have started doing, adventures, things that, that you did not do? W- list a top few things that you do now that you didn't do, when you were drinking and living a more conventional social life.

nick 6:46

Yeah. I think that, I mean, exercise is a big part of, of my life and I think our, our, our whole family's life, and I think that's something that has just added and added. So I wasn't much of a drinker before. And actually, if I was training for like a run or a marathon, that type of stuff, I would actually deliberately not drink as part of a training regime. So I'd gone through that, that before. I think just having that as, as a constant has meant that exercise isn't a, "Oh, I, I, I can do it today because I didn't drink." No, I can do it every day because I, I, I don't at all. So it's not limiting anything there. I always take my hat off to you. Justine is definitely the organizer in, in our lives, and she's been brilliant about great nights out and theaters and all that sort of stuff. So, and it doesn't need to be with drink at all. In fact, it doesn't... wouldn't have added to it, would've probably would've taken away from it. So the nights that we've had together are memorable because we remember them and, and you're in it, and you're not sort of fuzzy around it. so yeah, I think, yeah. So, so well done, Justine, for, for doing that. I, I know I, I wish I could be more creative about oth- other things. but, but yes, I, I think in some ways it's just shown how normal it is really, and you perhaps, maybe you are a bit more creative about other things you do rather than let, let, let's go to the pub. Let's go to a really nice restaurant and maybe actually, we're not spending the bottle- the money on a bottle of wine. Let's eat something nicer. Let, let's, let's, let's go to a nicer restaurant 'cause it's, it's

justine 8:08

What are you talking about? We don't go to nicer restaurants. What? He, he's talking nonsense. Look, viewers, the truth is we don't really like fancy food. We don't like fine wine or fancy food. But what we do do is we do things like go and do sauna together. we co-re- regulate our nervous systems together. We actually find things that are nourishing, not depleting. I'm, I'm sure that going and having a Michelin star meal might happen. I mean, he said it, right? So let's go ahead and book that, Nick. Woo-hoo!

nick 8:40

Yes. No, no, no, no. you're right. Let, let, let-- Let's do more saunas and cold plunges, but that sounds like such a sort of a, a cliché. But, yes, but I do enjoy all those things. You're absolutely right. And it's interesting the stimulation you can get from those things that perhaps there's ma- there might have been a stimulation from alcohol to an extent, but there's definitely a stimulation from a sauna and a, and, and a cold plunge. And for me, going for runs and all that sort of stuff, that's, that's... Still don't wanna have a, a flat life. I do want the peaks and troughs and all that sort of stuff, and that's maybe how people relate to alcohol. I want the ups and downs. I wouldn't know what the downs, but you know, the, the variation, and so you still get that stimulus variation.

Barry 9:17

Yeah, that's really interesting. And I, and I think, I think that realization was what It was probably the most surprising thing to me was that, that it When I s- stopped, you know, I thought, you know, "Well, I'll be missing out. How will I have fun? How will I, how will life be bearable? How will I deal with stress? How will I And, and all those sort of things you're thinking at, at the, the, the, the peaks I'll be missing. but the reality is once you get to the point where you see the alcohol for what it is, that it's actually, creating often the problems that you're using it to solve, and it's also the, the, the, the highs that we feel are in large amount actually just, a reaction, a sort of relief to, being allowed to drink because you, you 'Cause you've built up that sort of scenario in your mind that, in this situation, I need a drink. In this situation, I need a drink. In that situa- if that happens, then I need You know, we drink. If it's celebration, we drink. And you feel, And, and it's also a physical thing. The And we, we've, you know, there's science that shows that, that the, that the body reacts to, being in a sort of celebratory situation with other people drinking you're not. And you, you'll feel, "I'm missing out," and your body will be sort of reacting and, and producing all sorts of, preparatory chemicals to sort of balance the effects of the, the alcohol that it thinks it's going to get. And so you'll start to feel an- more anxious and all, all that kind of stuff. But once you understand some of that and, and go through it a couple of times and realize, actually, know, that passes very quickly and, you have only Yeah, the, the, the benefits of the not drinking and you don't have the downsides and you start to You know, your, your, your natural feel-good balance comes back and your, your, or, or your base level is, is, is heightened, that you can actually appreciate the simpler things and, and, you, you get the highs from, from a lot more, a wider s- a range of things and it's not, you know, a prerequisite that you need the alcohol before you can actually have fun, before you can socialize, before you can relax. And yeah, I think that, that, that idea of, oh, yeah, you know, some Finding things that are, good for you and that will actually give you lasting, uh, pleasure and lasting, feel good like saunas and breathing and, and, you know, and, and just socializing without the alcohol. I think that's, that's a, that was a real shock to me.

nick 11:42

Yeah

Barry 11:42

so, what would you think of as, as sort of things that, that, yeah, a sort of big takeaway for you that, that, um, that's, that's changed, you know, aside from the things you've already said. You know, are, are there other things that you sort of say, "Well, this is a, a, a, has been a real benefit to, to me"?

nick 11:59

you know what I think? one of the starting changes is actually just how good alcohol-free beer is. I really like having an alc- so I, I think there's maybe a, a brain thing going on that that sip of that beer, that first sip that everyone talks about, oh, that wonderful first sip. I get that same sense when I have an alcohol-free beer going, that is cold, delicious, bubbly, and all those sort of things. I'm really enjoying this. And actually, I think back to the social setting, and I feel totally part of it, and I'm not-- don't need to feel, feel... my mood is changed because I-- all those things are, are, are going through, and I enjoy that, that beer. So I think hats off to the an extent, hats off to the drinks industry for producing things that are actually well-crafted, delicious. I grew up with, the, the terrible sort of alcohol-free beers and so on that were just not very nice. And I didn't wanna have a big pint of Diet Coke in a pub and all that sort of stuff. They're just bleh. I think from that side, that, that's been a really nice way of, of, taking that away. I think the other side is actually just I enjoy meeting my friends and talking to them, and I want to enjoy the conversation. I hate actually the slurry, horrible, God, re-repetition story again and again. That's when I wanna go home. But actually, I think that a lot of my friends now either don't or I'll meet them in different circumstances. Let's go for a walk and whatever. I definitely-- I think my connections with my friends is enhanced, not, not decreased because of the way that I drink. And it's not like I don't drink. It's, it's a question of I just don't drink alcohol. But I still drink with them and I still, be around them, but we perhaps find other ways of having a deeper connection. uh, yeah, and more fun because of it.

justine 13:35

I remember you coming home or talking to me about last year going, "Do you think there's actually something in this alcohol-free beer that does get you high?" 'Cause you said, "I came home. I'd had four or five pints," and you came home and you had the same h- hung- You know, when you, when, you know, you, like, a bad feeling. When you wanna come home from a night out and you're, "I'm ravenous. I need to eat," you know? And you, you, we associate that with drinking. But I remember you saying that you associated that, on a night out and you'd been on the alcohol-free. So it goes to show that this surge of dopamine and f- and endorphins and everything that's released, that's connection creating that. And then getting tired after and needing to, to refuel. So how fascinating is that?

nick 14:23

Hmm. Yeah, I remember actually you saying, J-Justine, about this whole thing that... And perhaps I've overheard some of your co-co-coaching calls and perhaps, yeah, sort of we discussed about that whole sense of that, that first sip. And loads of people talk about, about that, that first sip. And remember you saying, "Well, it's actually physically impossible that alcohol has made any difference in that first second." It can't course around your body at sort of speed of light going, "Ah, now I'm relaxed." And so it is that psych... It's a psychological sip. thing, as you said, perhaps we then chase that feeling of that first sip, and that's why we end up having all these additional pints sort of b-back in the day. Or you just did it out of habit, out of what else do I do? I- if I go and see my friends for X number of hours, you have a pint every, I don't know, 20 minutes, half an hour. So you just have this number of pints. But yeah. no, I think it's been interesting, that, that sort of revelation to me.

Barry 15:14

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, my- I think that, that placebo effect is, is very, very strong. and, and I feel it too. And I, and, and it's almost feel... And, and the excitement also comes when you sort of, you know, when you think about it and you think, "Oh, actually, you know, I'm doing all this and I don't, I know I'm not gonna get any of the downside to it." You know, I'm just getting the- the- the- the taste and, and the, the feeling of belonging and, you know. And, people sort of look at it, i- in different ways and, and s- and for some it can be, it can feel like it's a slippery slope. So it's not necessarily for, for everyone. that I, didn't dare to try alcohol-free beer for, for maybe two or three years before, a- after I stopped 'cause I thought, you know, maybe it'll be something that leads me to- to- to, you know, tha- that slippery slope. but certainly it was a, it was a revelation once I did, you know, try it and, and just thought, "Wow, that's, you know, that's what I've been missing" That, that sort of taste and the, and the moment. and now I get it without, without the downside. And I think, yeah, I think, I think people can tend to feel it's dangerous to replace alcohol with something. but actually, you know, it's when you sort of take a s- a step further back, you know, what are you looking for? You know, you're looking for, something refreshing or you're looking for, something you enjoy and, and you're looking for s- you know, the, y- you, you want to socialize, you want to relax, you want to, you know. And, and it's fine to- to- to- to, I think you need to replace it with, with something. and it doesn't have to, you know, obviously if you replace it with something worse or, or, or you start smoking or whatever, tha- that's obviously not a, not gonna be a great replacement. But there are, you know, the- the- the- the body is looking for, these little, treats or little, ways to- to- to change mood and, and whatever you can find that, that has a, a, a, a, has less negative, effects would be, would definitely be the way to go. so what is, is, is there anything that you would say, carefully, about how, what you've noticed in Justine and the changes that, that, that between, you know, that, that how have you, how have you noticed, uh, her change over, over the years that, that, that she's been, alcohol-free?

nick 17:19

Well, I think that, Justine has always been very mindful of her health in loads of different areas, and, I think this is just an extension of that. You know, I mean, she's an amazing therapist in, in, in her broader work, and that's-- I think that clean mind and body sort of c-comes, comes together. yeah, I think it's... It's an interesting question, actually, in terms of how it, how it's changed everything. As you say, sort of think, think carefully about this. I mean, she enjoyed going out, and perhaps alcohol was, was, was part of that. But I probably, probably saw some of the anxieties that came after that, and I think th-those are gone, and I think that... Well, not gone. I think that they're-- the friendships are probably more real, more deeper and, and, and I think she probably feels more settled from that. and I think there is just a, a general sense of great-greater health and, less reliance on things. I think Justine is an incredibly strong woman, but I think we all sort of find our sort of crutch that we sort of feel, feel we need to, to lean on. And I think having children and, and all the things that go on ar-around that, that was-- it became habitual rather than something that was a thing of choice, perhaps. But look, I've been very clear on this, I think for everyone on these things, that we had fun going out and, and, and, and drinking, so I don't wanna demonize it in, in some ways. "Oh, God, it's terrible." So I think-- But it was that part of our lives that, that, that we enjoy. But I think it's also-- like with many things, we're just a bit more mindful. We're mindf- a bit more mindful about what we eat and who we spend time with and how we think about our bodies. So I think it's, it's a mi-- make it a mindful decision that you're doing it because you want to, not because you feel you have to. I think that was a bit Justine's, a very social creature, and so I think her revelation is, "I don't have to do this to be accepted, and I'm a good, great person to be around, and I don't need the enhancement of, of drinking." That's perhaps what, what I've seen, from her, her change around this.

justine 19:14

Yeah. And, I think one of my biggest fears stopping drinking and, the biggest fear... Well, I just wanna share with the audience really. It's all very well us just talking surface level, light-hearted, "Oh, yeah, it's all so much better now we've got health mindset," and all the rest of it. But the truth of it, the biggest fear is how are we gonna stay connected if we have lost something that is one of the greatest connectors that, that couples have? You know, you lower your inhibitions, you have a few drinks, you have a jolly time, and you have a jolly time. And the truth is it takes a really long time to build meaningful connection or to reconnect in a way that's deeper and truer. What we've found, and I'm, I... Forgive me if I, if it feels a bit much, Nick, but the truth is we've, we've had to dig deeper and probably ex- explore truths in ourselves that may never have surfaced before. And we, I believe we have a, a deeper and more profound relationship than we had when we were, socializing in a different way. And, and, and a relationship that, I can see going on many, many years into the future. Past when the kids leave home. I'm not frightened. I don't know about you, Nick, what your biggest fear is going forward, 'cause I will ask you that. That is my question. But I think, I do not have a fear about being an empty nester now because I know that we have built deep, strong connections that will, that in- involve adventure and, and deepening our connection. So what would your... What do you think your biggest fear around, removing this from your life would be? It can be about this, it can be about something else.

nick 20:49

Hmm. Biggest fear. As you know, Justine, I'm full of fears. So it's, And it's not just sort of, snakes and spiders and all that sort of stuff. yeah, I, I would probably echo what you're saying that, a-maybe am-- have I removed something from my life that, is stopping me from, from being involved in, in, in, in other things? and maybe that's why I think, to an extent, I, I haven't got into saying, "Right, that's it, I'm never allowed to drink again." So I'm just... I'm, I'm choosing. I'm making a choice. And I think you often talk about that freedom of choice. I'm making a choice not to. But I could also have the freedom to choose to... If someone-- If, if I went to, I don't know, yeah, as you know, I love Italy and if I was in Italy and someone said, "Have this glass of wine with this great pasta dish," I wouldn't go, "Sorry." I, I might now. I-- My first thought would, "Hmm, do I want to do that?" But I th-- I also wouldn't go, "No, you're not allowed to." I would go, "No, if I want to, I, I will do." And it's, I don't feel that I'm on that sort of slippery slope. Oh, well, that's, I'm, I, I drink again now. So yeah, I-- Do you know what? I generally don't think I have any sort of fear of what it's... It just feels just nothing. It feels normal. It feels just drinking a glass of water now. It's just me. It, it doesn't... So I think the stigma, like, oh, this big thing. So it doesn't, doesn't... I, I don't attach a fear to not drinking at all, would be my honest answer to that.

Barry 22:05

Well, that's, that's brilliant. I mean, I, 'cause th- that's the thing that, yeah, a- again, we, ev- I think we started with that, the idea of, missing out. And that's, the natural fear to begin with, is that you think you're missing out. And, and I think, the tr- sort of traditional methods of, of, uh, o- of stopping alco- stopping drinking is, you know, the giving up. You know, which is, which, it, you know, it's in the title, sort of missing, missing out or, or I can't drink anymore. Or, you know, A- Alcohol Anonymous, Anonymous sort of feel that their, you know, their, their, their, methodology sort of teaches that they're different, that they can't drink and that they, you know And, and a lot of people, in that world, have, you know, enormous regret that they can't drink s- and, and, and, and wish that they still could, and wish that they were nor- they could be like a normal drinker, and all that kind of stuff. And, and our approach is very different in as much as we focus on beliefs around alcohol, those sort of beliefs that alcohol adds something. That, that it, that it actually is, is serving you in a, in some way. And, and allow people to sort of see it from the s- you know, from a different angle, and, get to the point where they see it for what it is and realize that it, you know, it's been an illusion or it d- become an illusion. You know, like you said, it, it can have been something in the past that was enjoyable, that was fun, and has, you know, great memories. But particularly as you sort of move past 40 and, and i, i- into middle age, that it can be something that, you know, takes a long time to recover from, you start doing it for different reasons. And you're, you know, it be- it has a sort of negative hold on you. And when you sort of take a step and realize that, oh yeah, actually it's not adding, it's, it's causing a lot of the problems, and you can let it go. And, and that's the sort of freedom part of, of what we try and, try and teach people, is that you can actually, find freedom from it and have no regrets about it, and life can be, can be better. And so it's, it's, yeah, it's great to have that, h- have, have y- have, have you on. And to hear that even without sort of a conscious, search yourself, that it's, you know, you've just sort of seen it in, in action with, with Justine and, and, and realized, yeah, actually, you know, it is time. And it is, you know, that, that there are, you know, th- that would make my life better. And, and to, to, to realize that, it's, it's really powerful. As, as we come to sort of the end of this, our, our time together, how, how would you You know, we, we, we often or we always ask people, for, three words that kind of summarize, they feel about, being alcohol-free. And, do you have, three words for us?

nick 24:39

Yes, an, an interesting one on that. I think maybe the first one is probably, control. But I don't actually mean sort of in, in a controlling way. It actually gives me control of, of my life and, and doing the things that I, I want to do. I think within that, I found professionally I would-- if, if I, I do a lot of public speaking, and I would find if I'd drunk the night before, I couldn't get my words out the, the next day. So I'd kind of lost some control of my-- of the best version of me. And I think actually not drinking gives me that, that control back. I think second one-- the second word would be joy. because I've really enjoyed just life generally. And again, it's back to this sort of detractor of, of alcohol. I've just enjoyed spending time with my friends, my family, and, I-- there's been no detraction from it, whatsoever. yes. So I think control and joy. And the third one, I was trying to sort of think about this, earlier. Control and joy. And maybe, look, maybe this does come back to, to what you said. it is perhaps, it is that freedom word that probably just keeps coming back. it's my choice. It's my freedom to choose, and I'm choosing to do this for my body and my family and my career. And I think because I wanna get the most out of it. I wanna get the most out of all of those things. So I want the freedom to have the, the time, the head space, the energy and all those things, to, to do that. So I think that's what it-it's given me. I hope tho-those, those three words add up well.

justine 26:02

they do add up well. And what is so incredible, we, we'll just round off by talking about the ripple effect again, is that how Nick is speaking is, is like somebody who's been through hours and years and months of the Snake of Mind methodology. So for the fellow coaches that listen to this work and those that are struggling to find freedom from alcohol, the methodology is incredibly sound. And just being, l- just listening to it, having it wash over you without making specific decisions that, "I'm stopping now. I must never do it again," or... Nick is just, Nick is talking about freedom and joy, and these are the things that come from this work. And what I've noticed in Nick, which he may not, well, he may not see specifically, is he now works, is able to work with, greater consistency. He's, he's actually running two businesses now. He's gotten excited about his presentation skills coaching, and he's an amazing presentation skills coach, and it brings him great joy. So it's almost like he's able to develop, more strings to his bow as well, that we have more capacity because we're not wasting time. So I would sort of add to that you have control of your life. you've definitely got more joy in your work as well as family life from the outsider looking in. And this freedom to grow a brand-new business as well is exceptional

nick 27:29

Absolutely Thank

Barry 27:32

Yeah, and I, I, I take my hat off to you to, to, to as well that have to have the energy to sort of... 'Cause you live part, part of the year you live in or you spend, you divide your time between London and, and Auckland, and that, that, that's also something you need an enormous amount of energy and, yeah, that, that, that's an amazing thing to, to be doing as well

nick 27:50

Yeah, look, I would say that, the energy side is, is a really important bit. And I, I think as I move into my 50s, eek, that I feel more energy now than I probably ever have, have done. And, and as, as you say, consistency of energy. You wake up each day. Now, I, I, I had a, a, a virus the other day, and I realized, what does, what does this feel like to feel bad? And I thought, "God, this feels like a hangover used to feel. This is terrible. I feel sluggish and brain fog and all this. I just feel rubbish." And it was, it was like living a two-week hangover, having that sort of virus. And think, "God, that's a bit reminder of, of h- what a depleted mind and what a less energetic body feels like. Don't like this." So why would I bring anything to, to deplete those things?

Barry 28:31

Why don't you, uh, the, as a sort of, segue to, to, to talking about, your, your business that, that, that, that, Justine referred to. What, what would you... Te- tell us a bit more about, particularly about your,

nick 28:41

Yeah

Barry 28:41

public speaking, business that you, you, you've started

nick 28:44

Yeah. Well, look, this has been, a passion in my career in investment sales and has, led to me to be a sort of a mainline presenter in front of sort of thousands of people, an audience, and I did take great joy of doing it. I realized, like anything, if you want to do it really well, seek out a coach. And I-- So I had coaching myself, and that made a big difference to my, ability to communicate and, and connect. But it's amazing once you start seeing what it's like to be a coach, then you can start to be a teacher, and I'm sure you've gone through that in your same process for, for, for both of you there. Being a teacher and seeing how you can help people be the best of themselves is great. And I think public speaking is one of those great fears that people sort of step back from something, "Oh God, I'd hate to do that." And I love to find-- help people find their voice, and that's, that's a really interesting area to, to, to go through. And even good speakers to make them be great speakers. We are all wanting to connect with the world, and the ability to speak well will make a big difference to how you can connect. In an increasingly AI world, the human factor, I think, is an increasingly important skill for both our children coming through, but yeah, anyone and everyone. yeah, it's been a joy to do it, and, I want to do it for as long as, as long as I'm useful to, to do it. And I know that that have worked with me have found it really impactful, and that's, that's a great lovely joy. And I know that actually when I think about Justine's work and, and your work, you have the ability to make people's lives better. What a great thing to, to add to the world. And so I think I probably get a snippet of that when it comes to that. There, there may be another ripple effect there. I get a snippet of that when it comes to helping people find their voice and perhaps find their joy of standing up on stage and, connecting with a, with a whole audience.

justine 30:24

So Nick, how do people find their joy in coaching with you, please?

nick 30:30

well, I, I probably, I don't live on much social media. so but I do live on LinkedIn, 'cause that's perhaps my professional world. So you can find me, um, Nick Bird, is what will come up. you'll find perhaps there'll be two parts. You know, my professional role is working with a company called Triplepoint. but I also work alongside that in, in the coaching side. That's great for me 'cause it... Actually, me practically standing on stage and doing it and then talking to other people and help them do it better brings those two worlds together, really well. So, find me there. I also work with a company called MSB Executive, and so if you go to msbexecutive.co.uk, I think it is, you'll find a website and you'll find details there. But reach out to me on LinkedIn, have a chat, message me, connect with me, and, I'd love to help you. I'd love to help as many people as possible.

Barry 31:13

Brilliant. We'll, we'll put the, put that in the, i- in the show notes, so people can have, lots of different ways to, to, to connect with you. It's been so, so, so nice to, to, to spend this time with you. And, you know, I s- I spent, you know, over the last, what is it now, Justine? Since tw- 2023, so, so three, three and a half years we've, we've, we've been working together and, and, uh, we, we, you know, we're aware of, of each other's partners and, and, and what go- a little bit about what goes on in each other's lives, but it's, it's, it's, it's great to, to, to have, have, have this opportunity to, to spend time with you, Nick. uh, thank you very much

nick 31:46

Enjoyed it. Thank you

justine 31:48

Bye

Barry 31:50

Very good.