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This is Alcohol Freedom Finders, and this week we are with Sarah Callejo, a fellow alcohol freedom coach. Have you ever been so drunk that you couldn't talk? Do you remember feeling ashamed, embarrassed, or disgusted with yourself? Many of us just laugh it off, but for Sarah, one such occasion was the turning point for her. Growing up, Sarah had felt like an outsider and started drinking at 14. Just to fit in, she'll share how Spanish culture and life as a writer made drinking feel unavoidable. So join us as Sarah reveals the moment she broke free from the illusion of alcohol to find true pride, inner peace and authenticity. Don't miss this inspiring conversation on finding your way to alcohol freedom.

Justine Clark: 0:49

Well, without further ado, I'm super excited to, welcome our special guest, Sarah. she is a,

Sarah Callejo: 0:58

got,

Justine Clark: 0:59

I did it great.

Sarah Callejo: 1:00

yeah, you got it right.

Justine Clark: 1:02

She's a fellow coach, alcohol freedom coach, and also trained with us in the This Naked Mind Program. So we're super excited to have you here today, Sarah, to talk about your journey.

Sarah Callejo: 1:17

I am really honored to be here.

Barry Condon: 1:19

Yeah, it's great to have you on, Sarah. we've met each other or at least seen each other in various settings, in sort of coaching, get togethers, online but I've never had a chance to get to know your real background. I mean, I know that you are, coming to us from Spain, where, you were born and grew up, but you've got a very English accent, so we're interested to hear what's behind that. but first of all, just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to find alcohol freedom.

Sarah Callejo: 1:43

Well, I was born in England, but I've never really lived there, so I would spend all my summers with my grandparents in England, my mother's English, but I've lived in Spain and. That has always made me feel bit of an outsider. Like I was neither completely English nor completely Spanish. And I dunno if I showed myself like that or people saw me like that. But I just took on this, feeling that I was different. And think that that was one of the main reasons I started drinking, because I started drinking at. When I was only 14 years old and I just wanted to fit in, and I thought, well, this is what cool people do. So I'll do the same. I'll start drinking. And then, so starting at 14, it means that for half my life more, well, more than 30 years now, I had been feeling guilty about drinking the whole time and being a disappointment. But still, I kept on doing it and still I think the biggest reason was I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be a part of people who drank now because then you become an adult and real adult drink. So I wanted to be part of that too. And it was always, the real reason. or at least one of the reasons, that kept me drinking despite all the shame and guilt and disappointments that I could feel.

Justine Clark: 3:23

Yes, it's that, terrible trap that alcohol has. You believe that it's your friend and that it's the answer when really, Barry, where you were saying yesterday, it just creates a need for itself. We have a need for connection. We have, as humans, our base need is to connect, with other humans. And alcohol is selling us a false promise, of connection and friendship. And that it'll never leave us. And really, it won't never leave us. It creates a jolly, desperate need for itself. So you've hit the nail right on the head, Sarah. So when did it get, like,'cause of course you go through a bit of time where it's manageable and actually maybe works a little bit for you when you are normal because everyone else is doing the same. When did you start to get that feeling of the walls closing in where there was sort of more negative feelings around, your drinking than positive?

Sarah Callejo: 4:22

I'm a translator, but I'm also a writer. So, I started joining these writer communities online. There, there's like this sort of image of a real writer, drinks, you know, the glass of wine always. and if you want to be a proper writer, you have to drink alcohol. And if I ever went to literary festivals, was

Justine Clark: 4:48

Yeah.

Sarah Callejo: 4:48

nonstop. Like I remember going to a, a romantic novelist association, conference, and we were all. Most of us were women, and, and the bar actually ran out of drink because we were drinking so much. So I was taking that also as, as part of my role as a writer. and so in the evenings I thought, oh, I had to drink wine. And then COVID came and I just drank single evening. I always would find an excuse. To drink, what else was there to do? And I just felt it ruled my whole life and it took up so much head SP space,

Justine Clark: 5:38

Hmm.

Sarah Callejo: 5:39

even. after COVID, I just kept going and it was like the number one priority, like I'd say to my kids, oh no, you get the bus back tonight because I'll be out with friends drinking, I would rather be drinking in a bar than going to fetch my teenage from another village or whatever. And that's when I started realizing, I just couldn't go on like this. I'd lost control directly.

Barry Condon: 6:09

Yeah, it's amazing how, the culture, draws us in, you know, from a very early age. maybe you could talk a little bit about the culture, there in Spain. Around drinking. as I know what it's like in the uk there's a huge culture. You know, you see it as a kid. and like you said, you, almost want to get there fast. you want to become an adult and you see them drinking. And so that's what you do. and it's shown to you as the way to relax the way to fit in, the way to have fun, the way to celebrate it seems to be, the answer that sold to us, for everything. and I know from Justine that New Zealand's no different. I mean, how Spain is, is Spain also a,

Sarah Callejo: 6:45

yes, yes, yes. It's just. Everything revolves around alcohol too. Like here you're meeting at, for what we call the vo, which would be lunch. you're already meeting for beers and then they give you something to eat, something tapas, what we call tapas. so you, you've already started drinking before lunch, then you start lunch with more alcohol. and then meals go on and on. So you might finish at four o'clock in the afternoon or five you've just been drinking the whole time because after the meal there's also normally some spirits or something. and yes, like when I've told people I'm a coach and help people drink alcohol, they're like quite shocked. Like in Spain at least. People, I'm, I'm meeting there, there aren't that many people who want to stop drinking. They don't see it as something unhealthy. They see it as a form of, of life. in fact, I remember the first person I told I was stopping drinking. He said to me, not life. How are you going to live if you don't drink? I think this is life. It wasn't life when I was drinking. This is proper life now. But of course when they're in it, when they're in, in that culture, as you say, and that social circle, well, you don't see another possibility, do you? There there's like no alternative.

Justine Clark: 8:30

No, and there's a tipping point as well. So there are those around us and in society who do believe that it is life and for some reason or other, they haven't given it as many jobs to do as some of us have. So there is a sort of a compartmentalization of when they drink and how they drink. But for me there was a moment where, like I'll ask you about again, when, my children were small. It was sort of like a four to five year period where I was pretty desperately lonely and it was relentless being a parent of children, and I didn't really sign up for this. I sort of thought, I'm like, you from a generation of women are independent, women are able to go out to work. We are no longer the, you know, the drudgery housewife. Actually what ended up happening was not only was I expected to go and work, I was also expected to run the house and be there for all of the kids. Um, you know, doctor's appointments, school plays, cutting toenails the whole lot. And the relentlessness of the expectation of me and society meant that I needed more of a prop and that need, for alcohol. Then became the its need for itself. So instead of it just being a part of life, going down and, you know, socializing, it became something that I needed to be able to cope with the rest of the demands. What was that for you? You know, where did you feel that, hang on a minute. was it just a moment when you're going, I'm at the bar and my children are getting a bus home? Or was it a feeling? What's the feeling? Yeah.

Sarah Callejo: 10:12

I think for me, the moment I said that's it, I mean, I'd been thinking about it for some time. I'd even told my friends, I'm drinking too much. I need to stop. they would just say, oh, it is just a habit. We don't drink that much. Look at whoever. He or she drinks far more. And so I'd say, well, that's true. Maybe I'm not as bad off and so just keep going. But, but it was still in my, you know, the back of my head saying, this isn't normal, can't go on. But I think that moment for me was a dinner with friends. We had a dinner here and friends, and it was one of those long, or I think it was lunch, actually, one of those really long lunches. the end of it, I just couldn't talk. I was just so drunk I couldn't talk. I was probably swaying. and, and the kids came back from somewhere and I thought, how embarrassing. through all the alcohol in my brain, I thought, how embarrassing must be for them to see their mother like that, who can't talk and. And the next day, apart from the terrible hangover, it was just, I was so ashamed, so embarrassed and disgusted, basically disgusted with myself. thought, this is it. And I'd been watching a friend on Facebook who'd been. year alcohol free, I think. And she kept saying what a wonderful life she had. And so I'd been observing her. And finally that next day, I wrote to her and I said, well, how did you do it? how do I get out of this? And that's where she pointed me in the direction of a few books one of them, which was this Naked Mind. it really helped me. It really resonated and it made me feel I was normal, not this faulty human.

Barry Condon: 12:15

And that's just giving me flashbacks to the moment that I stopped that, you know, I mean slightly different, but,

Sarah Callejo: 12:21

I.

Barry Condon: 12:21

but also, but, but in many ways very similar. But the idea of. a big blowout at a party and my kids seeing me and getting to the point where I could hardly talk and, I was sent home by my wife and, then later when they came home, just the look of my kid's face and just thinking, oh, yeah, you know, the, like, you know, you said that must be so embarrassed. and clearly they were, and worried and it was, yeah, that was, yeah, for me, a moment where you just think, okay, yeah. almost like a blessing that I was always a pretty rubbish drinker. I would get drunk quite quickly. and there are always people, like you said, there's always people who drink more than you and you think, well, they've got a bigger problem. and you know, with their sort of physical health. And perhaps they will have more repercussions'cause they drink. but for me, I feel very grateful now that I was actually a rubbish drinker and that, it led me to sort of get to the conclusion that there needed to be another way in my mind at that point. and then when you find that, that, oh gosh, you know, actually, you know, what I was running away from, or, or what I thought it was giving me, you know, was just an illusion and it, it was. I, it, it was, you know, pretending to fit in and, and, yeah, no, it, it's so much more, life is so much more genuine, without it, but I can completely relate also to that idea of, just being. Alcohol centric. I've spent quite a lot of time in, in France and, and the French, you know, they, they find a reason to drink, you know, very soon after breakfast and, and keep it going throughout the day. But don't, and they, they seem to function completely normally and, and, and it's just the way that they are. I mean, so how was that when you made the decision and you read, this Naked Mind and maybe some other books. what next, you know, how easy did you find it? How difficult did you find it? or what was the next, phase of the journey?

Sarah Callejo: 14:06

Well, I read this Naked Mind and so all that summer was how alcohol affected me, how alcohol affected everyone around me. basically I was experimenting with it, but my biggest fear was, Losing all my friends, so I didn't tell anyone I'd read it. I didn't tell anyone wanted to stop drinking. I was just observing I'm worried the whole time thinking, how am I going to tell them I'm gonna stop drinking? This was a group we've been together for, with, for years. And basically what we did was drink the whole time, like Friday, Saturday, Sunday. At midday in the evening. It was what we did with them. And so that was the fear, stuffing drinking and then thinking, oh dear, I can't go with them anymore. What am I going to do? They won't want me with them. but what I realized during that time while I was observing was that first. It wasn't as fun as I thought it was. And second that no one was actually listening to each other. Like, yeah, the moment we sat down, okay, oh, how was your week? Whatever. then after two beers, everyone stopped listening to each other. They were just in their own world, or we were in our own world and thinking about our next drink So then I also started thinking, well, am I really going to miss out that much if can't go with these people anymore? and then, so I made the decision also, by the end of that summer, I just, wanted to stop. I didn't want to keep drinking because I. When it sort of goes into your head and you start observing and realizing everything, no, you just can't stop it And I thought I'd just, I'd set a date because we had meal. on the 25th of August we had a special meal and I thought, oh, well how am I going to have that special meal without good wine? No. Like, that's impossible. And I just couldn't wait for that date to come. And I remember not even enjoying the wine in that meal at the end, I thought, oh, it doesn't really taste that well. So anyway, I stopped and I told my friends I'm not going to drink, and they just didn't believe me because I'd said this before. They just didn't believe me and, and not that much changed. No, I'm lying. It did change. The dynamic sort of changed. They thought I'd be uncomfortable with them because they were drinking and I wasn't. I thought they would see me as an outsider. So there was all this thinking, what the others thinking without really knowing and then acting out what you're thinking in your head. if that makes sense.

Barry Condon: 17:14

Totally.

Sarah Callejo: 17:16

there was a time of adjustment there they realized I really didn't care if they drunk. I didn't feel tempted or jealous that they were drinking and I wasn't, you know, there was no resentment. when they were really drunk, get bored. So I would leave when I started realizing that things hadn't really changed that much, then I started being me again, like feeling as I'm just going to be myself and forget, like take the alcohol outta the equation. Things sort of settled back a bit. It has changed because I don't feel like going out to drink. anymore. it's not that I've been rejected for not drinking. That was my biggest fear, like being chucked out of a clan sort of thing.

Justine Clark: 18:11

I like what you said about feeling like an outsider. I think that for one reason or another, it's also something probably I've always felt. I'm the oldest child and I had two brothers and then another two brothers after that. And actually I have another two brothers and a sister after that as well. But I sort of felt like as the oldest, I was always the one leading the way I didn't have anyone, I didn't have a play buddy So I guess from the beginning I felt slightly like a put in the leader role. and I think one of my biggest fears was stopping drinking, was also around, feeling like an outsider. And now, like you also said, on the other side of not drinking, I will go happily go out for a meal, but by 10 o'clock. 10:00 PM I'm like, I am not only ready to go home, but I am gonna go home. And, I went out with old friends I hadn't seen for a very long time, a couple of weeks ago. and I just said, look, this is, you know, this is how I am. it's 10 o'clock. It's time for me to go home. I've got an early start tomorrow. I had a wonderful time. Thank you so much. And they messaged me back the next day. Wonderful time. Let's catch up again soon. Come to the pub quiz. So I think, I don't know about you, but for me, the more I practice the behavior of being authentically, true to myself, even if other people will stay to 11 or 12 or one or two or whatever, just being authentically myself, that alone is going to. Maybe it doesn't take away the fact that I'm an outsider, but that word starts to become less powerful. Outsider, insider, what does it matter? Because you are actually starting to just be more authentic. Does that make sense?

Sarah Callejo: 19:56

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 19:56

So I wanted to ask you about, you know, yes, feeling like an outsider was a yucky thing. But what's the sort of upside now of, not being the person compelled to go to the bar on Friday, on Saturday and on Sunday, what surprised you?

Sarah Callejo: 20:14

well part of, of, of that, of feeling like an outsider and. The social aspect. Something I was worried about was being boring. Like, if I stop drinking, I'll be boring. And so, at the beginning when I left early, because I was bored, I always think, I would think, oh, they're going to think I'm really boring now because I don't drink, or you know, they think I'm leaving because I don't drink. Which yes, it was because I wasn't drinking. I haven't changed. I have changed in that It's the real me. Before it was just this blurred alcohol person, like half person, because only half my brain was probably working and, and this is the real me And getting over that, those first months of realizing. You don't need alcohol to be funny or fun. It took some time, but then you feel, yeah, as you said, authentic and it's the real you. And I think people do appreciate that when they, when they get to know the real you,

Barry Condon: 21:38

Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, it is difficult in the beginning'cause you sort of think, well, I've only ever done this. They've only ever been in these situations with a drink. and they're looking at me like, what's she gonna do and how's she gonna behave? We making her feel uncomfortable? Is she judging us? all that kind of thing people want to make you feel comfortable. They don't wanna feel uncomfortable themselves, they kind of wanna feel sorry for you'cause that's easier for them, but you don't really want that either. You know, there's all sorts of dynamics that are going on and, the quicker you can get through that, then everyone can relax. I find, I was really terrified about that. You know, and having sort of groups of. Friends that are lads, I've never been a very good drinker, but the guys I've been with are always, you know, it's always around drinking. whenever we meet up, we now go, golfing, I'll be going in a couple of weeks time to Portugal. just drinking from breakfast time onwards. I was worried that I, wouldn't fit into that anymore. And, I've realized, I'm actually with my best friends and, I don't need an artificial stimulant or artificial, thing to make me feel, in the mood. I can enjoy it without a drink. And I almost feel, I feel sorry for them that they need the drink. it sort of becomes that sort of thing in my head, like I'm wondering, what a shame it is for them that they. Need to have, pints and pints of beer all day long, to be able to enjoy themselves. And I don't need to do that anymore because, I've broken through that, illusion that that's the way you need to do it. I wish for them, That they could see it too. it's a great thing when, you do realize, for yourself that you can be more authentic and, you can have proper conversations and you can walk away when those conversations sort of deteriorate, towards the end of the evening.

Sarah Callejo: 23:08

Yeah, that.

Barry Condon: 23:10

how would you. You know, what would your advice be to someone else who was in your situation wondering, you know, perhaps someone in the Spanish culture or in a French, you know, that sort of drinking centric society, how would you, advise them to approach things if they were wanting to,

Sarah Callejo: 23:27

Well,

Barry Condon: 23:27

to

Sarah Callejo: 23:27

yeah, as you, you were talking. Now I was thinking that alcohol can also be a big burden on friendships. I remember having this really intense conversation with a friend. she actually was telling me that her parents had died we were both, you know, it was the end of a meal and we were very drunk and a few weeks later. Maybe a month later, she told me again about her parents and I said, oh, your parents died. said, yeah, you told me about it. I told you about it. Oh my God. And I felt so, so bad about that. And so, and then I've watched meals where everyone was happy and then started drinking and ended up in, in arguments, really stupid arguments. So. Wow. If you are wondering, am I going to lose all your friends? would tell you no. You're going to find the, the real, true, friends you're going to make, make deep connections you're going to fit in the right place for you. it's better you make proper friends, you know, not friendships that are based on drinking. But on a deep connection.

Barry Condon: 24:50

Yeah, no, I'm closer, I think to the guys now and. one-to-one. You know, you get close to them because, are able to open up to them when they need it. and you hear things that are going on with them. That, if you were drinking, that would go over your head and, yeah. So it's, yeah. I completely get that. Justin, did you have,

Sarah Callejo: 25:07

Hmm.

Barry Condon: 25:07

have another question?

Justine Clark: 25:08

I was just going to say, resonate with both of you there and say that. The other thing that I've noticed is I'm no longer, frightened about what version of myself is gonna turn up on a night out. Whether I'm the one that's going to end up, slurring or whether I'm the one that's gonna end up angry or in tears or saying something.'cause that's what started happening towards the end of my drinking days that I would have, if not blackout moments, moments where I would be saying things from my friends would attest to a really dark place. That I would be quite bitter and dark. I thought that was a part of me. And now I realize that that personality, that part of me does not exist, is not real. And, is not part of me at all. It was just what the toxic substance, a biochemical reaction that took place in my brain when I did drink it. it doesn't exist. I have no fear of her anymore. I know I'll never see her again. and that over time builds my confidence, in myself and in the authentic connections that I do have.'cause every time I connect on a podcast or. when I'm trying new things, I'm either really connecting with someone or not so much. and that's okay. Both ways are okay.

Sarah Callejo: 26:24

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 26:24

I don't feel like, oh, I've done something wrong, that's why they don't like me. Maybe we just don't have as much in common, as, I do with other people. we get at that time of the podcast where we like to ask people, Three words. And as a writer you'll have many words, I'm sure, but what three words would best describe what it's like to be an alcohol freedom finder for yourself?

Sarah Callejo: 26:50

I would say pride. I feel so proud of myself, of the person I am now. I loved what you said before about seeing certain parts of you before and thinking. that in me? maybe. No, it wasn't in you. It was just the alcohol talking. so, yeah, pride is big one. your inner peace, which I never had when I was drinking because I hated myself, basically. and being able to look into yourself and feel that inside is. It was just And then my third one would be authenticity, because now it's me. I think, stopping drinking has given me the confidence to be myself and to accept, as you just said, maybe you make a connection, maybe you don't. But the connection you do make will be a good one and you can hold onto that one. And not spoil it by slurring stupid things.

Barry Condon: 27:57

That's so, that's so, inspiring. I mean, because you, you, you all. By the sounds of it, you know, a lot of the reasons you drank were, were, were almost a, a lack of, of confidence or a lack of, you know, scared of your own authenticity or thinking that you needed some kind of mask or, or, or, you know, a crutch or a, then, you know, the, the the thing Yeah. To find that actually it's, by not doing something that's really, you know, not good for your health and, and actually not good for your relationships. You actually, you know, it's so counterintuitive and yet on, on ano another level, it's so. Obvious. and that's, that's what I'd, I'd like people to sort of get, you know, to take away, or to see is it, is that it's, it's an illusion. Drinking is an illusion. we, we we're sold it. and we think, you know, and it gives us that feeling and we, we sort of. It, it, it really does hypnotize us. and, but if you can, you know, the way that you did it with a bit of curiosity to begin with and just, just looking at it sideways for a while and just seeing, you know, is it really doing what I think it's doing? Are the people really having the great time and, and that, you know, starting to see through the illusion, you know, pulling back the curtain as they say, you know, the, the, the, wizard of Oz. Seeing the wizard, you know, behind the curtain. It's not, you know, it's none of it's real. It's, it's actually, you know, you don't need it. so equanimity, that's a good word. I'll have to start using that. Pride and authenticity. Really, really good. thank you very much. tell everybody, who are you looking to help? How can people find you? tell anybody what you'd like'em to know about you.

Sarah Callejo: 29:30

Well, I. I've got a website, which is, remember the now Es. because, well, the name is just re now I can remember because I'm not wasting all my memories on alcohol. I want to help people who don't have that confidence you know, now everyone talks about the imposter syndrome, which affects so many of us. and I want to help people who are suffering with that and think they can't stop drinking, that they need the drink to get through. that sense of being an outsider or, people who think that alcohol will help them fit in. I want to talk to them and see where that takes them. Help them see that they don't really need it.

Justine Clark: 30:26

I love that. And does, even in this podcast, There'll be a different felt sense with our different guests and being with you. I feel this lovely, gentle quality, this real version of you that, I admire and would want to sit next to and would come and you know, choose to come and sit next to it at a party. I would see you and think, let's go and have a little chat somewhere. And I know that maybe the drunk version of each three of us would never have met, otherwise we would've been stumbling around. Talking at people.

Sarah Callejo: 31:00

Yeah, talking at people and in your own world and just what like. Trying to cover that you're actually drunk and not really caring about what the other person is saying. I like that. And thank you so much for what you said. It gave me goosebumps.

Justine Clark: 31:18

Aw, so lovely to be with you, Sarah.

Barry Condon: 31:20

Yeah,

Sarah Callejo: 31:20

you so much for having me. you. Of.