Barry Condon: 0:00

This is alcohol Freedom finders. We often chase a sudden epiphany when we stop drinking, waiting for that one magical morning when the clouds part, and we instantly feel, transformed. But as we discover this week with our guest, Jason Shut, the real breakthrough is often much quieter. Jason shares how he didn't feel that lightning bolt immediately. In fact, it was only when he tried to step back into his old life that he truly realized the peace and clarity he had gained by leaving alcohol behind. Jason's an old friend of mine, we've known each other for 30 years and partied together on and off over those years. In this episode, we talk about that journey. We discuss the fear of losing the reward and the difference between a dopamine rush and genuine happiness, and the amazing ripple effect of choosing a different path. It's a wonderful, honest conversation. Welcome to the show. Welcome everybody to Alcohol Freedom Finders with me, Barry Condon and my wonderful colleague Justine Clark. Today we have with us an a very old friend of mine Jason Shutt, who joined us last year a couple of times for our, freedom Finders 30 day program. And we are really delighted to have him on the show and he is, he gonna tell, tell you all about that sort of thing and, and, and a bit about his life. Hi.

Jason Shutt: 1:13

Hi everyone.

Justine Clark: 1:14

Hey, Jason, it's really exciting to have you here. And I think the thing, one of the things that. Barry and I have enjoyed most about our own journey as alcohol Freedom finders is the ripple effect that we are starting to be able to see other people transform their lives through the work as well. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey and what led you to becoming an alcohol freedom finder.

Jason Shutt: 1:42

Yeah, thanks very much. I, I suppose growing up you, my relationship with alcohol was, was, was pretty standard. There was the, the odd ding with it, as you, as you grow up and sort of finding your feet with alcohol in general. Drinking here and there, on the park benches and the parties and stuff when you're a kid. But never really felt like that there was, there was any any issue with it. Then as I grew up moved I moved to, moved to France where I originally met Barry and lived in a ski resort, which basically was intrinsic, intrinsically linked with with, sort of partying and having a great time. And alcohol was obviously a big part of that. And again, I never really sort of thought, thought to myself, oh yeah, that's, that's, that's that's a problem. Just the usual sort of experiences of little bit too much at times and and, but some good, some baders just pretty much like everybody else. And as I've moved through my life, just with the introduction of, of my family and stuff. I just started to question myself a little bit with with my, with my intake and just how it was affecting me, how it was affecting the others around me basically. And I just decided to do something about it.

Barry Condon: 2:57

Brilliant. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's such a, a common tale, that idea of, you're introduced to it. Everyone around you is drinking. You, you do it, before it's legal. Everyone does it, it's, it's the culture. It's normal. There's nothing, nothing, wrong with it. Quite often, you're surrounded by people who do it a lot more than you are are better at it than you are. I know that in, in, in the outs when we were, you and me were a bit of the lightweights and, there were some big lads who could drink us under the table and, and, and usually did. And you sort of think of if anyone's got a problem, it's them. They're the ones who drink loads. We were, we were, we were just sort of, my only problem I used to say was that I couldn't drink enough. I was, I was a bit of a lightweight, but it's interesting. Yeah. That, that, that as did you find that, for instance, responsibility comes that you, your reason to drink change is that you, it is not just sort of drinking with the lads and, and, and and partying. Did you, did you find that you gave, as we sort of say, you gave alcohol, other jobs in your life?

Jason Shutt: 3:54

I think that what I found was that, alcohol was masking emotions I think. And also sort of clouding, clouding my my thought process and, and my judgment at times. And. I didn't really notice that until I actually took the decision to, to have, have a period, a period off drinking. And, and then even then it, it was, it was very slow to sort of to appear to me in terms of I expected this sort of epiphany sort of situation where, oh yes, I, I feel so much better. I'm so clearheaded and, and everything else'cause I don't drink anymore. Well that didn't happen. So for, I. First time I I sort of started to not drink it. I had an eight month period without drinking. And I, I, thought, oh, yeah, okay, I feel great. And, and yeah. Everybody said, oh, you must be, must feel amazing and stuff. And I was like, well, yeah, okay. Yeah, it, it's all right. And it was only, it was only after then I had a period where I started drinking again. Oh, you know, I. When I say I start drinking again, I, I sort of listen to myself and think to, oh, maybe I sound a bit, like, a bit, bit like an aie, like sort of drinking first thing in the morning till last thing at night sort of thing. But, but it's not, it's not like that. It's just in, just when I say start drinking again, you have a glass of wine with the evening meal. Glass of wine turns into a cup of glasses of wine that, that evening, that that sort of thing happens, every night of the week till you get to the weekend. Then you have a few, a big night on the weekend recover on the Sunday and then go back to go back to work and start all over again. And you just don't really, you don't really realize this sort of consumption and everything. So it's only when you start, or when I started drinking again that I realized the difference between the non-drinking me and the drinking me. And I at that, I think it was that, that point I had the, I had the, you, the moment in my head where I said, this, this is this is gonna stop. And, and that's when I made the decision to, yeah, to just to quit drinking altogether.

Justine Clark: 6:19

And it's a really good way of, of telling the story how, of how alcohol is really insidious and it sort of, it takes over your life by stealth. We are not aware of it

Jason Shutt: 6:30

I.

Justine Clark: 6:31

so accepts it and it socially it's, it's the, it's the thing that people do at weekends, but it's only when you have time to take that pause or have a 30 day break or an eight month break that you realize that. the majority of the time you were dealing with the after effects of alcohol. And if you say what you said then, which is you sort of have this four day around the weekend, we are looking at about 50% of our lives where we're either drinking or recovering from drinking or thinking about drinking. And that's, that's where you start to put into question, is alcohol serving me the way I think it is? Was your biggest struggle with. Adapting or making the change from being a drinker to going, do what, gonna give this a rest.

Jason Shutt: 7:20

I think the biggest change biggest barrier almost is, is, is, at the end of the day alcohol is intrinsically linked with every single every single thing you do. You go out for lunch, glass of wine or beer or you finish work. Oh, you go for a few beers. You, we, I mean even like I said about skiing and stuff, lunch on the mountain, again, wine and beers and it's all flowing. Apre, ski mold, wine. And, and, and that's only, that's only the start of it. So and then, and even yeah, just like anything, anything or any sort of reward that you have. Alcohol is intrinsically linked to it. And so you, I think that maybe you have this barrier where you think you're not, you're no longer gonna have that reward. So, you've been working hard all week. You have a beer at the end of the week to sort of like kick back and relax? Well you, you maybe think, oh, well, if I'm not gonna have that beer or those beers or that interaction with, with my friends at that point and stuff, then you're gonna be missing out on something or so. So that barrier then automatically comes, oh, well I'll just have one. And then, before you night, you're just having a couple. And like I said, then you get home and you have a couple of glasses of wine with, with your meal. And before you night you, you drink a bottle and, and then the, the cycle starts again. So the, I think initially that, that, that barrier is, is probably the, the greatest is that, is that because you use it like a reward you. It's at that point where you, where you think, well, am I gonna am I not gonna get that same sort of, yeah, sort of same. Well, reward, as I said, I'm using the word again, but, getting that reward from something for, for, for whatever it is. Whether, whether it being, having done the exercise whether it being, having, done, done the hard work over the week or, or whatever it is really.

Barry Condon: 9:26

Yeah. No, I, I get that so much. It, the, like we said before, it, it's, it's, it's everywhere. It's our culture builds all our downtime around. Around drinking. That's what you do at the end of the day. That's what you do at a party. That's do what you do at a get together. That's what you do if you're feeling down or if you are, every situation there's a reason. There's, society has built a reason to drink and that, because of the dopamine that it brings up in us, we get that at reminder every time. When there's an opportunity to drink your, your dopamine, memory. Triggers you, pushes you and gives you that urge saying, there's a reward here. Go for it. Go for it. it's, it's, it takes, it's so sort of counterintuitive to, to think, you think, well, well actually I'm not really, I'm not, I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I don't see myself in that way. I don't see myself as, as having this sort of, know, problem where I drink during the day or a problem where, where, where I can't, where my life is completely falling apart. That I sort of vision of, of people on the bar park bench, brown paper bag, drinking a bottle of whiskey. know, that's what I sort of thought. And, and, and I, I never, I was never anywhere near that. But, but eventually when you start to sort of. Question yourself. And and particularly if you can take a bit, take a time, time away from it. Have give yourself that sort of 30 day break or like you did, with, with a few months. and, if it takes going back to it and having, having it having a, trying it, trying it back on again, yeah, you'll see the differences is, is, is really stark. But yeah, it can be very difficult to, feel the benefits immediately cause they are sort of gradual and we have this sort of fading effect bias that they talk about that, that, we sort of romanticize, how things were and, and, and the dopamine works on you and, and, and, thinks you're missing out and all that. So there's a lot of sort of work to be done before. It can feel great in every situation. So how have you, how have you sort of dealt with that for yourself? How have you sort of got yourself back out there and, and go to these events and feel that you do belong and that you can relax and that it is still a reward to, to, to maybe have an alcohol free beer? have you done that?

Jason Shutt: 11:33

Yeah. I think, the way that I did it was, was to become more, more informed really to, to understand like you say the, the, the, the, the things that are happening in your brain and the things and, and really that's the sort of information that I got from you guys. Which helped me along the way. Basically you have the, like you said, the dopamine in, in, in your head is, is wanting you to have that reward, is wanting you to have that drink to, to have that sort of that dopamine high or the dopamine rush or whatever you wanna call it. So to, it's. It's really helped me to become, become aware of that side of it and to become aware of other ways to feed it, I suppose whether, sort of naturally and whether that, be through interactions with my kids and, and, and and other people and or, or being able to do, do, do other things. So, what was I gonna say? Lost train of thought a little bit there.

Justine Clark: 12:34

what you've said actually. I love that what you said about being able to spend time with the kids.'cause what I was thinking about reward is we are trying to match up the reward we used to get the quick reward from alcohol. Alcohol, the quick dopamine release. And we're trying to sort of equate that in our alcohol free life. But actually there's another hormone called. Oxytocin, which is like a, a real over a real overarching feel, good hormone that is actually more sustainable, more long lasting, and ultimately more fulfilling than the rollercoaster ride of dopamine that we're all chasing at the moment with our phones, with alcohol, with sugar. So what you get with an alcohol free life, you may not get the spikes of little reward rewards of the drink at the end of the day, but what you get is this overarching sense of wellbeing and, and rightness in the world, the sort of energy they play with your kids. The energy to I know that like, like me, you have also moved all the way across the world. So there are different types of rewards, aren't there, Jason?

Jason Shutt: 13:44

Yeah, for sure. I, I, as, as we sort of touched on I used to, we, I used to live in France which is where I originally met Barry. And, but I then also while I was there, I met my wife. Who is a Kiwi from New Zealand and we, well, we've been in New Zealand now nearly 10 years. And yeah, we, when I decided to, to, to, to move from, from a from a place where obviously I felt as felt as at home and very, very comfortable. I decided that, that I also needed to maybe to, to change some of my ways. And if I hadn't, if I really, if I hadn't been able to if I hadn't done that, then I, I don't think I would've been, been able to, to, to actually to make the move. When you, when you, when, when you sort of, moving halfway across the world. There's lots of challenges that, that, that come about, whether it be sort of making new friendships, finding a new job just building. I've built, I've built a house here. As I said, my children have, have started to grow up. They were only one, one years old and one and a half years old when we moved here. I just don't really think that I could have done that in, in still drinking. I just felt that I was missing one, I was missing out on so much. And two I was making life quite difficult for myself. So even as I said, I, I touched, touched my toe in the water for, for, for eight months. Saw what it was like on the other side, on the on. And then and then as I said, I decided to to jump straight and jump, jump fully in and fully unes myself in, in, in actually just not drinking at all. And I think it's the best thing I've ever I've, I've ever done, really. I, I definitely feel that it, that it was, it was a, a really, really good decision. And said, not, not the easiest, not the easiest thing to do, but, but definitely very, very rewarding at the end.

Barry Condon: 15:48

Brilliant. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that's, that's, yeah. No, that's, that's, that's really interesting to just, to, to hear that whole, how, how it all changed for you and, what, what advice would you give to someone else who's maybe in that situation where they're beginning to question their drinking and, and beginning to think, maybe there is another way, but are perhaps thinking, how would I, what would I do for kicks? What would I, how would I enjoy life? How would I fit in, socializing, what, what would you, what would you do to help them reframe that that, that those thoughts?

Jason Shutt: 16:25

Yeah. I think as we discussed a little earlier, alcohol is, is unfortunately linked with everything we do. And so, so unfortunately making that break from it can, can be, can be difficult. The, the way I did it was to allow myself to have a, have a, have, have some time off, basically. Not become reclusive, but certainly cut myself off from, from certain situations where, where things might be a little bit too tempting or, or, or yeah, there might be a little bit too, too much peer pressure or just the pressure in general that you, you maybe don't, don't need. And, allow yourself basically a little bit of your time, a bit, a bit of time, just to, just to have on, have fun, on your own. And then a good way is to maybe just, then it reintroduce sort of like situations with maybe one person or just a couple of people rather than being in a big group and, or a big party or anything like that. And then obviously after that you can use you can use things like. You know non-alcoholic beers or non-alcoholic wine, or, if you don't wanna be seen drinking soft drinks and stuff like that. Or if you, if you think, feel that people will, will question you more, oh, you are not drinking tonight, or whatever else, and then you have to go and, either make excuses or, or if you feel confident enough, obviously talk to the person about it. Then, then, yeah. The new alcoholic beers that, everybody's every single beer developer now is pretty much offers one. Nobody even knows I went to a party the other day and, stood there drinking beer and whatever else, and, nobody was, nobody was the wiser. So, these, these, these sort of things were really. You don't have to be missing out. You can still be there. The part you, you can just miss out on the, on the, on the boring bits, which tend to be a little bit later in the evening when everybody keeps repeating themselves and, and not being able to get their words out in, in, in any way, shape or form. So you can have all the good bits, which are in the early evening when you you, talking to people and, and and getting into the spirit of things. And then and then sort of steer away from the from the from the other bits, which maybe aren't so good.

Justine Clark: 18:51

a hundred percent. And I think like, like I was saying earlier about reward, we are looking to try and. Replace how we were socially with something new that's gonna make us equally comfortable. But if you give yourself, like you have done time to step back and slowly do things with a friend or a couple of friends or close friends before you launch into big party, you realize that actually you do parties differently. And yes, it's gonna be Arks when you go into a big group. I went to my daughter's pre ball last week and I didn't know anybody. It was a big party. Everybody was drinking. And I was like, oh, this is Arks. I will talk to a few people, talk to the people I knew and felt comfortable with, and then went, my daughter's settled. I'm not going to just drink'cause there's alcohol here. I'm gonna go. So you, you sort of start to take away not just the shame of drinking. But the shame of not drinking and you start to.

Jason Shutt: 19:51

The other thing is I, I, I, I reframed it a little bit and, and, so at times, I'm happy to be the nominated driver and stuff, and people go, oh yeah, I really want to go. Oh, well I'll drop you home. No problem. Oh, will you? Oh, I can get a taxi. No, no, I'll drop you. It's no problem. So you, you, you, you also get that that it's almost, I suppose that as the dopamine rush or the serotonin or whichever, brain drug you're looking for used. You, you, you're, you're getting that sort of feedback anyway because'cause you're doing something else, which, which is, sort of nice or, you are helping people out or you so, so there there are things like that you can do as well, you know even. Cooking, di cooking the dinner and stuff like that. Actually, that you invite people to, maybe you're a bit more with it. You can can push the boat out a little bit. Maybe doing stuff, stuff something a little bit more challenging or yeah, so I, I just reframe it in, in, in slightly differently at times. And that helps me, yeah, not, not think about really wanting to have a drink, really. It's been a year now and since, since I since I had a drink. And yeah I don't really, I don't notice it at all anymore. Doesn't really come into my head. It's just, yeah. It's, it's completely

Barry Condon: 21:08

Yeah, that's fantastic. And I mean, I think, like, like you Know, the, the, the, the learning about it and understanding it, and I think that's something that we, we, we, we bang on about a lot is, is sort of being curious about, what it. What's that drink really meaning to you? What, what's it, what's behind it? What are you actually, what, does it really make me happy? Does it really make me more confident? Or, or could it be that it's actually when I come down after having a drink, it actually, it makes me feel down for longer and I'm only feeling happy because it's giving me, a bit of relief from, from how I was feeling, or, or, That, that, does it make me more confident or, or does it disguise my, my lack of confidence and actually make me feel less confident? It is just sort of a mask. It, it can be playing all sorts of different roles without you really being aware of it. Just because society normalizes it so much. And the more you understand and the more you realize that, even, if you just break down the, the, the latest science, it'll show you that, Everything that you, you put in, anything artificial you put into your body to try and change the way you feel, your body will react to it and then expect more of it and leave you in a situation where you're actually depleted and everything's dulled and, and you're generally feeling down. And then, and, and that, that sort of builds that cycle. And, and the more you can see it, you can think, oh yeah, well actually, that's not gonna be the, that's not the answer. That's not serving me anymore. And maybe when you're, when you're. 25 and, and, and full of rubber and magic. It, it's, it's fine. And you'll, you'll bounce back every day and, and not notice it. But, as you get to our age, then it, if it's not serving you question it. Take a bit, a bit of a time out and and mean hopefully the community and, and, and, and being with us for those, those, those two 30 day sessions, tell, tell people a little bit, a little about that. What was good about that for you?

Jason Shutt: 22:48

Yeah, I think the 30, 30 day sessions are, are really great because it just allows you to, to, yeah, just to have a go. Just to, just so there's, there's no pressure, there's no it allows you just to start to. Think, oh, okay. Well, get, I suppose get in touch with some of your emotions, some of your, your thoughts, some, gain information, which helps you then get a little bit of an understanding. And then. Then, yeah, then you can use that in, within your, for yourself and actually start to question things and stuff to say, oh, like like you said, whether whether you know it is serving you anymore, whether it is actually what you want, what you want to do, or whether, whether you're just doing it sort of as a, as a natural habit at the end of the day. Not an addiction, it's just a habit. It's just ingrained into you over a period of time. It's something that you just do day in, day out. We're creatures of habit and that's, and that's what we do. So it allows you just to question those habits and it also allows you to to imagine. Life with without, without a drink and without yeah, without those sort of pressures, to Oh, have a drink with every single thing you do really.

Justine Clark: 24:06

I love the most about what you've said then is it reminds me that all of a sudden it stops being about alcohol and starts being about how do I live the best version of my life? So it gives you an opportunity to start looking at your life. alcohol in it, and then you realize how much more you might get from doing it that way. So it sort of creates that pathway, that opportunity for trying to work out what you really want from this, this short time on, on the planet. So we've reached that time in the podcast where we ask guests what three words best describe becoming an alcohol freedom finder for them. Have you thought about your three words?

Jason Shutt: 24:49

Oh, I haven't, I, I, I, I missed that on the on the email. Let me think. Three words. Well, I mean I suppose one of the, one of the words is, is definitely freedom. I mean, that's in the, it's in the title. That's it, it, and it's freedom from lots of freedom for lots of things. But the main thing is, is, is. To do what you want to do rather than rather than what something is influencing you to do. So obviously that thing being alcohol. But it, it can be, it can be lots of things, it can be can be a phone, it can be, for some people obviously drugs or whatever else. Freedom is definitely for me. One of, definitely one of the words. Lemme think freedom, three words. You'll have to, you'll have to cut this one up, won't you? Emotions. So it allows you to become in touch a little more in touch with your emotions. I, when you start to look at yourself you, you then also especially when kids are involved, but I think also with, with your relationships in, in generally in in life you, you start to look at, look at your emotions a bit more and or alcohol basically. Oh, I think anyway, alcohol that dores your emotions. So when you, when you stop, stop drinking and then you, you definitely become a little bit more in touch with those, whether there's something that, that you can, you, you can control or that you can yeah. Deal with is, is under the question, but definitely becoming more in touch with your emotions is, is is something that that's, that's a really good, side effect of, of not drinking. And after that I'll just say happiness.

Barry Condon: 26:38

Perfect.

Jason Shutt: 26:40

'Cause I'm, I'm really pleased that I made that decision and I think my family are as well, so that's, yeah.

Barry Condon: 26:46

that's good

Jason Shutt: 26:47

So.

Barry Condon: 26:48

Emotion and happiness. Really good, Jason. Well, it's been really great talking with you and and, and, and we'll keep in touch and and I'll see you soon hopefully. a lot.

Jason Shutt: 26:59

Yeah. Thanks guys. Thanks. Thanks for everything. So, as I said those 30 day programs great for for getting all these sort of things started and it's really something that helped me in, in, in my journey, as they say. And yeah, it's, it's really great. Thanks guys.

Justine Clark: 27:14

say, Jason, you are looking very fresh, very energized, very handsome. So it's almost like instead of going in on detox, go and join our 30 day program and look 10 years younger.

Jason Shutt: 27:27

Oh, that's it. Yeah.

Barry Condon: 27:29

Brilliant.

Jason Shutt: 27:31

Thank you Justin. Thanks.