Justine Clark: 0:00

This is the Alcohol Freedom Finders. This week we're joined by a fellow, this Naked Mind coach Corina, who didn't think she had a problem with alcohol at all. She was a working mother, highly successful and functioning well. Until she wasn't. When she hit her mid forties, she was hit by a double dose of stress. Her son was diagnosed with Tourette's Syndrome and her mother with cancer. This moment of extreme vulnerability forced Corina to take a long, hard look at her drinking wasn't really the elixir that she was hoping it was, or was it preventing her from approaching this. Tough time calmly and with Grace. Corina joins us today to share her journey, which includes her specialist perspective on working with adolescents and those from a Latin American cultural background. Bring it on Corina. So everybody, welcome to Alcohol Freedom Finders. today we have Corina, also, uh, this Naked Mind coach. So. So pleased to have Carina with us. Carina has been coaching for two years and also loves speaking, to young people about the trials and tribulations of alcohol, as well as being, a specialist in perhaps a Spanish angle. So we'll look forward to hearing more about your journey and your story. Karina.

Karina Koplock: 1:28

Great. Thank you for having me

Barry Condon: 1:30

Yeah. No, it's really nice to meet you, uh, Karina. So well take us back. Yeah. Take, take us back. Uh, uh, and tell us a little bit about your journey, and when you realized perhaps, uh, that you needed to change your relationship with alcohol. When, when, when did that come about for you?

Karina Koplock: 1:44

so I like to say I've been a loser for a long time. I would always say, you know, so that was many, many years. my drinking started when I was really young, but, What was weird that I

Barry Condon: 1:54

I.

Karina Koplock: 1:54

is I never, never thought I had a, a problem until I hit my forties. I had just finished, I worked, in corporate for many years. busy traveled, not only around the US but um, around the world. And it was always, you know, drinking was part of that culture, you know. I never thought it was an issue. I, at that time, I had two small kids and I decided to open an indoor cycling studio. I've been teaching for many years and I said, oh, I just wanna try something different, stay more at home with the kids. And I think that that's where things got really tough for me. I, I had that liberty of, well. I'm not at work. I have a very flexible schedule. I would teach classes, have my studio, but, but I had a lot of free time, right? I would drop off the kids at school and I was at home. I was like, oh, all right. I would have a glass of wine, you know, in, you know, in the, uh, refrigerator, a bottle. And I was like, oh, I'll just. Drink a little bit, right? Whether it's, it's 12 o'clock, it's not like I'm gonna get hammered and I really never got drunk. but then I started drinking that, then I closed my studio. and then the stress of having small kids, I would always say I found myself with another job, right? I went back to work. and then it was like every single night I would come back from work and then I. was already normal. I would go ahead and get a bo open a bottle of of wine while I had dinner, and then of course that was every single night. But then again, I wasn't drunk, I was functioning. I would still wake up at four 30 in the morning to teach my early classes, then go to work. I mean, I was highly functional. I was tired, right? I was constantly, oh, I'm not gonna, tonight, I'm only gonna drink two glasses. Right? But again, my glasses of wine were, which I thought was like, it's only two glasses of wine, but it, they were filled to the rim. And that make me felt psychologically right, that that's not a problem. And then of course, then Thursday was closer to the weekend, so then I could drink a little bit more.'cause it was a pre weekend. And then it was Friday and Saturday, of course you have to go drinking, right? And I would go out and have social life, but it was always around drinking. And then me thinking, not having to drink, I. Is was on a weekend was so bizarre. If somebody would've told me, person doesn't drink, I seriously thought that they had a drinking problem, or they would weird, like, I would never, I never associate myself with anybody that didn't drink right in my circle of friends. so I really never thought I had a problem. But I kind of, my body was already taking it a little bit too much, right? I drank too much at night and then I was like, oh, why did I drink? And then you have when you wake up in the morning like so mad. but I felt like all of my kids years of being young, like I missed out because I always wanted to put them to sleep early and drinking was more important. but it wasn't until, 2022. Towards the end of, 2021. So going into,'cause it was New Year's, my son got diagnosed with, uh, Tourette's. And that really took me, you know, to a whole new level of stress that I had not experienced, uh, before. I also felt. I'm very close to my mom. She lives close, by, and she had had some kind of health issues and I it deep in my heart, I knew she was gonna, was, they were gonna diagnose her that she had cancer. and those two things really got me thinking about what I needed to do to change my relationship. Just because Tourette's, if you don't know much about Tourette's, but Tourette's is a very, You become obsessed with a lot of stuff and it's really triggered by, it can be very, it's mental so you have to really be calm. And of course, it is as we have, have learned now, alcohol young adults or adults that drink have Tourettes also triggers that a lot. So I was thinking like, what kind of, if I want my child to grow up to be. You know, healthy and not have this, you know, what kind of example am I putting, for him? So it was, really kind of my journey to, to thinking about should I really be doing this and, and drinking. But I really never had a rock bottom for people. A lot of times people were like, oh, it was bad. I I've got plenty of stories of me and my drinking days. but it, it was just that inner me that said, wait a minute, can this thing liquid, have so much control over me? So,

Justine Clark: 6:51

I resonate with so much of your story already, you know, and I'm sure Barry does too, the sort of

Barry Condon: 6:56

Hmm.

Justine Clark: 6:57

it just sneaks up on you. This, this, something that seems like it's just, just a little bit of a help. Right? And of course, mother's helper, mother's little helper, and you're self-employed so you've got more time at home, all of the stuff, and it's just, it's just creeping in. But. What I was listening to yesterday and really resonated with me was when we are drinking, we're able to get through our life. We're still able to get to work, we're still able to get to the spinning class, we're still able to do the stuff, nothing extra. We're not able to,

Karina Koplock: 7:29

right.

Justine Clark: 7:29

live our life in a, in, in a way that's full of, joy and a weekend that goes, do you know what? I'm gonna go for a, a hike, or I'm going to. I'm gonna take my kids, do something with the kids, or I'm, I'm just so happy to drive them everywhere because you are sort of free to choose. Free to choose the freedom to choose.

Karina Koplock: 7:47

Right, right.

Justine Clark: 7:49

so knowing what you knew about your life, how did you then turn it around from the situation where you were drinking more than you wanted to? You thought people were weird that didn't drink, your mum wasn't that well, and your son had dreads. What did you do to turn around for yourself?

Karina Koplock: 8:09

Well, uh, two weeks after, so January 3rd, December 3rd, I decided, I'm like, I'm just gonna stop. Like I. I'm gonna stop. But I had started reading alcohol and that it was a poison. And I'm like, seriously? If it would be a poison, like they say, I, I was one of, I need a lot of science and backup. I'd be like, there's no way people are drinking. You know, they would allow people to, to have alcohol. so I, but I started kind of reading more into it. My mom got diagnosed with cancer. So I stopped December, uh, January 3rd. My mom was, uh, diagnosed with cancer on the sixth, and it kind of, I was mainly her caregiver and it kind of put a pause of to, okay. slapping you, like you really have to take control over this.'cause this, this year is gonna be tough. I read a lot of Annie, Annie Graces, I read her book. and then I also did a, started going into different, stuff about what is it, alcohol, what it does to you. I heard podcast, and it was more of a, the first month was. Like you would hold on to be like, oh, this is hard. It was hard'cause I really went, I stopped, like when I said I was gonna stop drinking, I stopped, but I was still not convinced as to when I wanted to drink again or when it would be. So I kind of gave myself, I guess, grace without knowing any methodology or doing that. I was like, let me just try this and see how it goes. So I, I, I stopped completely, you know, cold Turkey. That's, that's, that's how I stopped, drinking. And the more I did research, the more I learned about alcohol was, I was so curious about how, best way to describe, it's like I felt like I had been lied to. I was like, why hasn't, like, it's one of those things that you learn so much and I'm like, why hasn't anybody. Like, why are we sitting? There's so many times, I always think about this, there's so many times we want the best for our kids, right? We were like, oh, you know, I would do anything for them. But then yet, there was so many nights that I've spent, you know, dinner at the table. I would have my glass of wine. My husband would have beer or wine, whatever. I would reprimand them for having sugar, right? I mean, we're like, no, you're having water. You know, you need to learn how to eat healthy. We worry so much about what we put in our body, but alcohol, alcohol is different, right? Alcohol. I never thought it as one of those things that why would I not, why would I not do that? Same for for alcohol, so.

Barry Condon: 10:56

Yeah, no, it, it, it gets such a free pass. And, and I think, I mean, it, it's, it's everywhere obviously the, the, our culture, is, it's just fully ingrained into the culture. And, and I think, you know, it's perpetuated by, By the alcohol industry. Obviously it's in their interest that it, that it's, that it's normalized. but it, yeah, I really resonate with that, that when you start to realize and you see it for what it is, you sort, you sort of burst the illusion. Then you sort of think, oh my god, you know, there's, there's so much disinformation out there and, and you know, uh, that, that even that it's addictive. You know, people are surprised at sometimes, and you sort of think. Yeah, you, I thought that was, I thought it was the people that, that got addicted, they were the problem and not the fact that it was an addictive substance. And, and I think that's, that's often the, the, the, for me at least, that was the thing that kept me from making a change.'cause you sort of think, well I just, you know, everybody drinks, drink is normal. You know, that, that's, that's what we do. But actually, you know, it's just, like sugar. It is an addictive thing and you don't have to wait until you are the size of a house and, got diabetes to question whether it's a, a thing. You know, it can be, when you start getting cavities in your teeth or whatever it is, you can catch it at a very early stage, So how did you then approach it? Because I, I struggled with that idea of, you know, well, that's what I do for fun. People ask me that, well, what do you do for kicks now, you know, how did you, uh, rationalize that with yourself and change your approach?

Karina Koplock: 12:24

I know, my answer might not be a popular one. A lot of people might not like. but I really had to isolate my, and, and I'm not saying I become, became antisocial, but from, you know, my family, close to my sister, you know, all of, I mean, I met my husband drinking, I didn't isolate from him, but, uh, but it was more of, I needed some time to really think about. I wouldn't call it temptation is just for a while, I just didn't want to, it was, I'll give you an example. I would go over to some friend's house, right? That we've always hung out and, and, and party, and I stayed there, two hours, three, me drinking because I would always be drinking. It was more like five hours, and then of course we would finish the last bottle even go buy more. was, and I had fun. Don't get me wrong. But it, but that's not what I, I, I would do it when you're not drinking. I can still have a blast. Two hours, and then I would go home. And then a lot of times they would be like, oh, Corina, you're so boring. Or Why are you leaving so early? Are you not having fun? And I was having fun. I was just tired. It's, it's one o'clock in the morning, I'm ready to go to bed. so it was more of just doing different things with my. My, with my kids, enjoying them more and not necessarily do other stuff. So I started new activities. I, for once enjoyed watching TV or watching a movie with my kids. I can't tell you from when they were born till, till, well, they were 10 years old, or 12. I can't remember. I really can't remember much about any movies that I watched. Again, I was not a hundred percent. Drunk Maybe sometimes, but I, I don't, I have no recollection. And that's the other thing, when I started, I noticed that I needed to start drinking is I didn't remember things. it was when, if I would talk to somebody the next day, they would never think I was like hammered or drunk. just started not remembering things like pieces of the night or what happened during the day. And, you know, again, it's just this such a scary thought. course I didn't say one of the moments, a lot of times I would, I would be the designated driver'cause I looked so good driving, with my kids in the car, even though it's like three minutes from here, five minute drive. But I drove drunk. I, it's a miracle how I never got because I surely could have gotten. More than once, you know, with my kids. And I love them to death. That's the scary part. Alcohol makes you do things, addiction to the people that you

Justine Clark: 15:20

Yeah.

Karina Koplock: 15:21

like, you know, and that's why I, I never tried judging, but I kind of really stepped back a little bit, just to kind of figure things out. I just had me time. I started, like I said, reading a lot, learning about it, kind of getting healthier inside and out. That's the best way to, to explain.

Justine Clark: 15:39

I think lots of people notice that, once they're happy, well, once they're happy, once they're able to realize it's alcohol and it's not them, it's the first thing that, there's more space in their life to try and explore other things. They realize that they're not necessarily as happy to go in and spend time with people who are still in the alcohol game. And that's fair, right? Because as you say, once we are

Karina Koplock: 16:06

Right,

Justine Clark: 16:06

drinks deep, the the frontal, we know the science, the, the frontal brain switches off. Um, so the memories aren't gonna be laid down. So we aren't gonna remember most of the night. That's just facts. we're gonna start repeating ourselves and tell stories. Maybe, I mean, I don't know about you, but you hear the same story like three times in a night, right? Oh God. And, and, and the other thing that I've really noticed is, the kind of social anxiety side of, Drinking and not drinking. So I notice now when things go wrong for me, or I feel like I've had a disconnect with someone the past that would've taken me down and probably would've, would've made me want to drink more wine that day. And now I'm like, okay. just as, just in the same way that I, I now go, it's not, it's not me, it's alcohol. I can now say it's not me, it's them. It gives us sort of a feel like. It gives us our power back, not just with the drinking side of things and the drink driving side of things, but across the board we're able to start feeling to, Hey, no, I'm okay here. This is, this is, you know, I'm in a good place. This is, this is not about me. This is about it, them, the substance. So that, that sort of sense of control, would you say to, who is looking to. Maybe reframe their relationship. Mine is more about you get getting control back. What would you say the, kind of the real gain for you has been, in your relationship? I.

Karina Koplock: 17:43

It's, I think it's getting to know, comfortable yourself. I really never thought, and this has, uh, this has been like, not until like last year, I always, you know, we learn so much about alcohol and it's either you are running away from something you're not. And to me it didn't feel that way. Like again, I had fun, and I will never. I had fun since I can remember, you know, those moments, I, now that I think back, it finally hit me a lot of times. Your stress, you drink, you're happy, celebrate you drink, it's trying to, finding yourself, feeling comfortable with who you are. Right? This is who I am. Happy, sad. A lot of times we escape, we try to escape whether even if it was fun, it was to be at a different high, right at a different moment. But you're not being yourself, you know, it's just, it's kind of finding yourself, who you are and who you feel comfortable, liking yourself. I, I think I've, I've, I've started to. Not that I, I think I've always been a person that I've liked myself, just me, my personality, but I've kind to like accept who I am, right? This is who I am, you know? Are there things that I could do much better? Of course it was, there's always room for improvement, have to escape. I don't have to be that talkative if I don't want to. Right. But a lot of times, while you were, while I was drinking, I wasn't that person who I thought I was. When I drank, right? I was like, oh, I could, it was so funny. But that lasted a little bit. Then I got into that little area that you start repeating yourself and you're really not that cool. It's the all call, right? That you think you're super cool, that you have superpowers. So I guess it's just finding your own superpowers, you know? That's the way to see it is, you know. Just being happy at with who you are. Accepting. And if you don't like something that you could actually change it without having a substance to make you change. I.

Barry Condon: 19:56

I think, I think that's, that's so true. I think, I think I've, I've learned looking back and, and, and, and looking at other sides, other parts of my life, and it's sort of, you know, it's the way that society is, in general now is, is that we, I. Really tempted to consume something, to, to make ourselves feel different, to make, to make ourselves feel happier, feel comforted, feel, you know, and it could be sugar, it can be a cigarette, it could be, you know, other drugs or, you know, it can be, you know, scrolling or, you know, and, and, you know, consuming social media. and I can hear with you as well, that, drinking was, this go-to for fun. I. But then it became, you know, because it's what you're shown, it's the solution to everything. And so when, when life gets tough, when, when, when you feel a bit lonely, when you, when you are, you know, trying to pick yourself up'cause you're at home and, and, the kids are, are stressful, whatever you do turns to it. And you, and we often talk about it, you know, you, you give it another job to do for you and it just becomes that little bit more important and, you know, and it worms its way in. And that, that's, that's how it sort of starts to, To take control.'cause it, it, you know, it, it, it just, it just mounts up the, the, the, the reasons that you drink and, and the, and steadily, and it might not be a huge amount. You know, I never drank, much during the day, and I functioned and, and went to work and had no, no problem. Uh, uh, certainly didn't drink when I was at work, but, eventually, it's just the, the reliance you have on it you look forward to it a little bit too much. so when you are looking back now, what surprised you, in a good way. What are the, the things that you would never have expected to, to, perhaps enjoy or, or to see yourself being? now, in comparison to how, how life was when you were still drinking.

Karina Koplock: 21:35

one that comes to mind is being able to, as silly as it sounds, being able to wake up on. Saturday morning or Sunday morning, and I'm just, I feel good. I feel good. I feel good. I can do go hiking, I can do a ti, I can stay in bed if I want to do nothing, but I don't, I don't feel sick. I just don't feel like I've wasted, I felt so many years again, looking back, I'm like, man, I wasted so much of my hours I was so tired. then, You know, just being happy, being able to, that surprised me too. I, I just have my son that started driving, so that's not, but prior to three weeks ago, it was having to pick them up and not worry. I'd be like, yeah, they go out and then pick them up from a friend's house. my oldest one is a social butterfly. go and pick him up from this house. From that. to worry that I, if I can, I drink or if the cop stops me when I'm driving, I can speed down. Not that I did, but I don't have to worry being all paranoid if a, if a cop is gonna, you know, stop you. and then it's just, it's that clarity that, that you have. I, I just feel my liver, my, I know, I really do feel, I don't know if you could feel, but I really feel like my body is. So good.'cause I just don't put that poison. and it's overall just health. and that you can really, I don't, I, like I said, maybe at the beginning of the first few months I did feel like I was missing out. But like, I always tell people I've gone to weddings, I've gone to parties, concerts. I never, I have never. The next day woken up and said, man, I just feel, I, I, too bad. I, I wish I would've drank. Like, not once. Not once. Like I've never regretted not drinking and I think that that is what I felt so much, or I, I have family members still tell me the other day they were like, really? I mean, like. Don't you miss? I'm like, I don't, and, and I would, I would be honest. I would tell you, yeah, I miss it sometimes, but I really don't. It, it has nothing. I feel good just because it makes me feel so good and accomplished in the sense of, I'm gonna take over this day. And again, you can have bad days, good days, but I've never, I, I've never, the next day I've never woken up and said, I wish I would've drank. You know, I've never had that regret. So that's a good

Justine Clark: 24:12

I love that for you. I was reading, I'm listening to a book at the moment, and he was giving the stats around for those that are just regular drinkers and I'm just talking about maybe weekend drinkers, they are losing about a hundred days of the year of every year to feeling crappy. So,

Karina Koplock: 24:30

for

Justine Clark: 24:31

so you're feeling, you're feeling the way you do and feeling sort of slightly smug and happy about feeling and looking good is real. I, I bumped into one of my dad's friends. two days ago I was out doing a yoga workshop'cause that's what you do on a Saturday, right? And I was just grabbing my decaf coffee at lunch break before I went for a cold water swim. and I bumped into this guy, friend of this and he goes, oh my God, you look amazing. What? And this is like hair off the face, not a scrap of makeup, just, in the coffee shop in a, in a lunch break. And it's like, you look incredible. You look and, and like said it three times. Know you just took really well. That kind of feel good factor takes over from any negative effect on an night out when you have to spend that first hour going, I'm just gonna, get through this little bit of anxiety and then I'll be, then I'll be good. That beats a hundred days a year of feeling crappy. and having, knowing that you feel a lot good, the best that you can, you know that, you know that that is priceless. So what is.

Karina Koplock: 25:37

that.

Justine Clark: 25:37

What is something that you would say to someone that's maybe considering or about to toy with the idea of not drinking? What's something that's maybe surprised you or, What's the thing that's been most surprising about? Stop drink, stopping drinking.

Karina Koplock: 25:55

Well, I think you to start off, like what I would tell somebody is. I think we live in, in a world, in a society where everything is extremes, right? You know, you don't have to, if you wanna stop, take a break. If you want to take a, if your break is every other day, that's an accomplishment. don't have to think. Everything is like, I'll ne I, I'll stop drinking tomorrow and I'll never gonna drink again. Right. like you don't have to like take one day at a time and say, let me see, let me experiment how this will feel. You know, take it day by day, week by week, and you can always go back, go forth. But just the more you learn, the better you feel. You know, if you, your goal is to stop drinking completely, don't think of the end. Like, I never, advice would be, never think I'm ever gonna drink again, because that's hard psychologically. If you've been drinking for a lot of years and, and part like, just wrapping your head around that, it's hard, right? Then you already are starting, you fail without even starting yet. you know, just be kind, you know, take it day by day and, and consider that. The FOMO is real. I think a lot of the time, like I think we, you started saying, I grew up in, my mom is Peruvian. I grew up in Peru. I moved there when I was 10 years old. I. And that culture, right? And I think everybody's like, no, no, my culture, but at least the culture in Latin America is like everything, you know, life is about drinking, you know, weakens, you know, I guess same thing or I guess here in the States, but the culture's really heavy in drinking and it's okay. to be that person. Right. That doesn't drink. I, I, I think a lot of it is not be yourself, not have to follow because everybody drinks and you know, you're really not missing out on anything. Your relationships might change and that's okay. I guess that's my, my word of advice would be it can change and it not, not necessarily for, for the worst, it can be better. relationships do change because you're interested in different kind of things.

Barry Condon: 28:16

Yeah, I think that's really good. And, and also that it doesn't have to be all or nothing and, and you have to make one, one decision and stick with it forever. And I think the, What you're alluding to there is that sort of curiosity. If you can, if you can start to be curious about, for instance, what am I, what am I actually getting out of it? Why do I actually drink, so much? Or why do I actually drink always in that situation? And,, it's often in those situations where you are with your best friends at the best party, and, and people are, then people go, oh, well, you know, aren't you missing out? Aren't you missing out? And I thought, well, no, it's a great party and, and I'm with my great friends and, For me, that's just numbing it. And, often I'll say, no, I don't need it. And they feel, oh, you don't need it. What are you saying? I need it. But no, I don't need it anymore. And, I'm not missing out. yeah, I really, really get that. And so. Well, you know, we're, we're drawing to a close here now, so, we always ask our, as our final question, you know, what are the three words, that sum up, alcohol freedom for you? Can you, do you have three words for us?

Karina Koplock: 29:11

I did, and I, I, I, I thought about it. I, I thought about it a lot and. What I liked doing is like, I'm gonna write this. I'm, when, when you said you were gonna ask me, I was like, I'll write, I'll write this down, whatever comes to to me, and then I'll do it again. And then I did it three times and that was, I still stuck to the three words, that came to mind the first time. So the first one is empowerment.'cause I think I can live my life on my own terms. that's one balance. It's hard to explain, but it was, that's the, the, I feel, uh, my most, I have balance with my emotion and choices do. And then the third one is authenticity. again, we've talked about being, it's how I show up and it's what you get is what you see, you know? so, and how I show up for myself and not only for myself, but for others.

Barry Condon: 30:00

Really good.

Justine Clark: 30:01

Yeah, they're really, they are beautiful and it speaks volumes to this kind of, this transformation that we undergo that has very little to do with alcohol at all, and everything to do with being able to just show up for yourself. Then show up for others. I just remember the first time that um, I met Barry in person and actually both times we've met and it's this very strange and wonderful sensation because you feel sort of like more vulnerable than you would be.'cause there's nothing else there other than just you two as friends being together because you're choosing each other. We're not choosing to go out and we're not choosing to go out and drink. We're not choosing to go and do something else. We've chosen to be with one another and connect, and there's something that's like a rising up of joy and excitement when you, first of all, are choosing yourself. yeah, whether you drink every second day or once a week now, whatever, it's about that realization that you can start to choose yourself. And then choose others to share that space with. It's, it's super exciting. yeah, I love what you said. So empowerment, balance, I. Authenticity. Yeah, they really ring true for me as well. Corina, it's been a pleasure, delight talking with you. We haven't had a, a huge opportunity to talk about what you are doing, and I'm sure lots of people would love to have you as a coach going forward. So how might people find you and what's on the horizon for you? Workwise.

Karina Koplock: 31:39

Yes. so you can find me@theafplanet.com. either there's a social media. You know, your Instagram, Facebook, pages, but also, through this Naked Mind, I found other coaches that are bilingual, that speak Spanish. So we're trying to put together different things that are just more for our Hispanic population. do things not only in Spanish, but a little bit of English too. So, for those that culturally have those two languages going on and, and understand, both languages, or even if you wanna learn I guess Spanish or English, you can join us. that is, we've created a, a Facebook group. It's called hangover free for those, that that's the same, translation of AKA. And uh, yeah, we have a lot of stuff coming up, soon, in the next couple of months, so just kind of stay tuned and, um, look us up.

Barry Condon: 32:33

Great. We'll put that in the, in the show notes so people know how to, you know, we'll, we'll have the links to get, get a hold of you.

Karina Koplock: 32:38

Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. It's been a pleasure being in to, really getting to I had some chance to talk to you, but Barry, this has been first time, so it was,

Barry Condon: 32:49

Yeah, it's been lovely. Thank you.

Karina Koplock: 32:51

with you.