Barry Condon: 0:00

This is alcohol Freedom finders. We often feel we should have things under control, especially when it comes to our relationship with alcohol. But what if it's not about being broken, but about shifting your perspective? Today, our guest, Susan Stout, opens up about reframing her relationship with alcohol and how it led to profound feelings of joy and confidence. Get ready to hear how small steps can lead to monumental change and how finding your true self is the ultimate freedom.

Justine Clark: 0:30

Welcome everybody. I'm super excited today because we have Susan Stout with us from. Stout Connections Coaching and actually she's a fellow, this Naked Mind coach and was with Barry and I on our journey a couple of years ago. So, so wonderful to have you with us today.

Susan Stout: 0:49

Oh, thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here with you guys. this is such an honor.

Barry Condon: 0:54

Yeah, it's great to see you, Susan. so why don't you take us back and let us know, what your journey's been with, with alcohol and, and how you came to find alcohol freedom.

Susan Stout: 1:05

Sure, sure. Well, Well, I've I've been trying to. I'm trying to, improve myself for most of my life, and so I've known for a long time that. I was drinking more than I wanted to. I didn't like the way it made me feel.

Justine Clark: 1:22

and,

Susan Stout: 1:22

I quite surprised when, when, my efforts, efforts, difficult. a difficult. time stopping. I tried a lot of things and, so. it kind of came to a head when my mom, my started. started. her journey with cognitive decline, which morphed into dementia and Alzheimer's. And I was I. that, a, I didn't want that same journey, and b, that my health was my own responsibility. and and so kind of it kind of kickstarted me to say you to, time to get serious here with. after my so that's kind of that catalyst. the

Justine Clark: 2:07

Do you know? I love that and I, I really resonate with that myself because that whole idea of I too have spent most of my life trying to improve myself. You know, I really strive to strive to be the best version I could of myself. And I knew somewhere lurking in the back of me that alcohol wasn't serving me, but I just thought I needed to get better at it. You know, better at managing it. And also, like you, I tried so many different things, you know, I felt like I was a failure because it was one thing I couldn't get good at. So I really, I really totally understand that. so how did you overcome that struggle? Well,

Susan Stout: 2:45

Well, first I'll just say a little bit that about the struggle is that, is that, you know, you you know, I wasn't adverse asking for help asking for help. lot of things. I did that for, I did that for, I used to and so I joined a couple program. a couple programs'cause I quit twice, to, overcome And And I I didn't feel ashamed. In fact, I was really proud of myself of myself for for asking for help, for help for quitting. but when it came to came to, drinking alcohol There was and I and I was afraid to ask for help because really worried about. worried about having another label, about. being called an alcoholic and what that would mean, and, If I was gonna have to find myself that way for the rest of my letter. of my life because I asked So that really helped me that helped me back, to be honest with you. I didn't want that. want that. stigma. So, So, So, slow down slowed me And down And and then and then I I. through some serendipitous, happenings, found the path, and from this naked mind and joined that and that program, that found ways to change my beliefs and. And, overcome this habit that was no longer serving me.

Barry Condon: 4:12

Brilliant. And so and so, what was the, what was the difference then? What, what, what was different about the, the approach in the path than other ways you'd looked at it before.

Susan Stout: 4:24

The well was the big one to, to put down shame, down the down the shame guilt and the and. and that was probably one of was probably one of the hardest was was myself some self compassion. compassion.'cause you know, I'm big on being for myself. for So So, for me to So for me come around to the belief that it wasn't my anymore wasn't my was really was really a big like, of course it's my fault. I'm the one who's. the one who's. ingesting the liquid, but. After After lots of work and the, in in the program, I came program, to see that, see that, addictive an substance substance my body my body are brain in ways in ways that the ubstance, the substance was intended for me to react and that is to drink And so And after so after I learned. As a lot of that well, then well, then I learned that learned that it wasn't fault. my Yes. Responsibility. now I Now I, Now I. on that, with that mind frame.

Justine Clark: 5:31

yeah, I, I, I hear you. I was talking about this with Barry yesterday about, for those of us that have given alcohol, lots of jobs to do in our lives, it's almost like. You know when you blow up a birthday balloon, it starts off this nice little shape and then you blow it up really big for the party and then you let it out. You wanna reuse it again, or you didn't blow it up quite right. It never goes back to that nice little shape ever again. And I feel for those of us that have given alcohol lots and lots and lots of jobs to do. that balloon never goes back to, its its original shape. So each time we try and stop drinking and then go back and just have one, it's like the balloon's only got a tiny bit of air in it. It needs way more air in it to then inflate in the same way. That's how I have seen, so that's the analogy I use for, for, for alcohol for me, and I don't believe it's the same for everybody. I, I, I think that some people who never blew up their balloon too big in the first place, still have a nice elastic balloon. what, let's just, let's just explore that a little bit further. what do you feel now about your relationship with alcohol going forward?

Susan Stout: 6:39

I have not. I have I have. to drink, and it's such a long non Mm. it, it doesn't. doesn't cross crossed my mind. You know, You know, once in a, In a, moon do something that I haven't done I before, before, since I've been drinking or it's not like so it's not familiar, and I'll be like, oh, I usually have a beer. have a beer. with this. Or I, a glass of wine would go nice. And I'm like, oh, isn't that a funny, thought that happened to pop in there. it's surprising more than more than anything. I do I do find, find, that I don't care, don't I don't care. other people I I I do find that my tolerance for hanging around people who are drinking for a long period of time is a lot more limited. So, yeah. It's the. you You know, it's okay okay for the first few hours. And then had enough, so, so, And Just like gratitude just like gratitude to, to be able to say, to be able to see you I don't feel I, feel the anymore, here and I've What? I've I could get Interaction. I hope I've given you some and let's meet up again. So, yeah, it's just, it's just a lot of gratitude. Yeah.

Barry Condon: 7:56

Great. And I, yeah, I, I, you were talking about smoking and I, I, Years. Yeah. When I was in my twenties, I, I lived, I did five winters living in a ski resort. And, back in those days, the, the, the, the chairlifts were very slow and, it was plenty of time to have a cigarette. And so I used to nearly always have a cigarette on the, on the, on the chairlift. And so now when I go back skiing, you know, there's certain chair, certain places, certain chairlifts that you think. You know, and I, I don't think about smoking. I really did, really don't want, you know, I hate smoking now, and I, oh God, no, nothing about it. But you do have those situations that it's something that, that it with and you haven't been through that without it, enough times, then you know, you do get that, that trigger. and it's the same with, same with drinking. And so it, it, it's kind of the frustrating part once you sort of to the point where you think, actually, no, alcohol's not serving me anymore. And, you know, I don't need to do it every day. And so you get to a situation where maybe you are, you're not drinking at home anymore, and, and, and that feels fine, but then you can get surprised by a birthday party and, or, or, or a wedding or, or a situation. or just, just a, a, a way you feel, and you, you, it's been your go-to in those situations. And, and, yeah, that it, all those little situations need to be. Unwound and, and rewired. Yeah. What's, what do I do in this situation? Is there a different way to approach this? And, and would there be a, yeah, another way to, to, to enjoy this situation.

Susan Stout: 9:21

Yeah.

9:27

,If you're looking to take back control of your drinking, why don't you join our Alcohol Freedom Finders 30 day group program. It's a great place to start. Because we approach it as an experiment, rather than a challenge. Whereas, as well as getting a great detox, you learn the science and the psychology about why you're drunk in the first place. So whether you want to stop altogether, or just become a more mindful and moderate drinker, why don't you give it a crack? Use the link in the show notes to sign up to our next 30 day program, and you won't regret it. Because no one ever woke up in the morning and said, I wish I'd had more to drink last night, did they?

Barry Condon: 10:05

In your journey? through the path, were there times that you struggled? Did you just sign up and, immediately, see the light and, and, and, and find it easy? Or, or you know, what, what was the struggle through that, period of being on the path?

Susan Stout: 10:19

you know, I think it was, I think was, was getting ready I. ready I joined the path. the path. I think, think I think quitting I drinking was the last thing I needed to do, I needed to do, that sense that my brain was preparing. My brain was preparing prior because, you I.'cause I had I some good practice practice, so, so, I was prepared so. whole journey through the path. It, especially in retrospect, it feels like it was quite seamless. You know, I took some time, I Pause where I stopped trying to stop to and and, and then. and and. just learning how to rewire my brain was so beneficial, especially the rewiring the parts mentioned before. before, just admitting that that I was overdrinking over myself myself such a big deal. such Um, Um, and, And I think that, think that, you know, we all have our own. we all have our backstories, but, my father, drank and was labeled an So, So, this. this background story story. that I shouldn't be like him. And, my stepfather didn't speak highly of alcoholics, so it was doubly reinforced that I shouldn't So again, just getting by my whole way way about what what that word means, I, I think was really instrumental in my, in my. Progress forward. and then I also. then I Also to think about opened up to the fact that that. everyone, everyone thinks about the word the same about, do. people some people, think word of the word as as, oh. some people who have gone through some things some things who are, a lot who life. more life experience, who know some more things than, than, do. than I so And so. Even just even just my. my, my. idea about that word really helped propel me forward as well.

Justine Clark: 12:34

Yeah, I really hear you on this label and this word alcoholic because when we give up smoking or when we're a smoker, no one calls us a smoke aholic. so alcoholic does just strip, if you, what image do you have in your mind as soon as you say alcoholic? I mean, I, I can't undo the image of the park bench in the brown paper bag and the homeless person, you know. It's just so there. And if you've got, formative figures reinforcing seriously negative beliefs around that label, then it's gonna make it even bigger and bigger. So, combine that with the, the shame of being someone who wants to improve herself. There's just this massive, what we call cognitive dis dissonance, which is one part of you telling you, you know. I need to be this amazing person that's improving. And on the other hand, going, maybe I'm this terrible thing, this alcoholic. And the easiest way to deal with it to start with is, is to ignore it. So it's no surprise that the stats say that, the average person stopping alcohol tries eight to 10 times before they're successful. So what I'm, what did I wanted to ask you about from what you just said was you said that you did the, the pause, so just people won't know what the pause is. So maybe just speak to that and tell us what about the pause was, was useful for you in terms of what we've been talking about.

Susan Stout: 14:06

Oh Yeah, yeah. well, well the pause is when you stop trying to stop to To the, so instead of, instead of, instead trying willpower to willpower and way through my or or Or instead of, of, trying parameters to put parameters myself, myself up for not meeting those parameters. stopped. I stopped. said, okay, I just said, okay, let's just carry on the way I'm on, on. I'm but instead but instead be kind be and. and observe. yeah. So I I, find I need, drink wanna Drink work. after work. Oh, what's that all about? it's it's I think It's, gonna gimme it's some relief. some relief. from my stress or I think it's gonna help me socialize or I think it's gonna help. it's gonna help. me do these things. And so there just Just to observe why why why I. was I was and then and trying observe it was how this me feel. that's what I really when I seeing was seeing that actually, I actually don't even Like this like it taste it kind of terrible. of And after the first one, one. never get that buzz that I'm chasing. I'm And And it never feels good and I really don't it's it. And that's I. what I. discovered is I really don't like this whole circus. So then it was way easier to stop it. Yeah,

Barry Condon: 15:38

that's good. I mean, that, that's sort of, we sort of talk about this sort of just get curious and, and be, be curious about, try and look at it sideways and think, you know, is, is it giving me what I, what I, what I expected? What, what, what, what the marketing was telling me, what, what society, you know, does it all make sense? Is it, is it perhaps an illusion? Can you look at it slightly differently and without the. The, the pressure of not doing it, you allow it to happen. You try and take the shame away, which I think, you know, for you and for me, you know, was, was a big deal.'cause you sort of feel like, you know, I should be in control and I should be able to do it. And all these other people are, are, I've got it under control and they're being responsible and, and we're supposed to be responsible. And, I think once you sort of start to see alcohol as. The source of the, the, the, the problem and not you. And, and, you know, it's just, it's an addictive thing. Like a cigarette, like cocaine, like, you know, any other kind of addictive behavior or, or, or substance. and then you just allow it to sort of, you know, once you sort of understand what it is and what it's actually doing to you and what it's actually giving you, it's, it's easier to, to, see it for what it is. And, and, and, And it takes the shine off it, and then it makes it easier to then, you know. So what comes after the pause? I mean, how, how long, how long did you, did you go through this for what, what comes next,

Susan Stout: 16:56

in the yeah, and then I just, I just, said you know, to, set a goal to to try to try. period period, of time, I think it was and I decided that that I wanted, I I wanted it, a month to see if And so I did, And, so and and oh yeah, well, I just. I'll just go a little bit longer. And then I just. I. lengthening and lengthening and then before you know it, I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna drink again. resistance in me saying, in me me. don't wanna say I never say I'm never drinking again. feel better, feel good. so I didn't, I just said, I'm not drinking right now and I don't need it, and it doesn't serve me. And I feel better bef because of it. Now I am, I don't think, I still say I'm never I just I just. say that not right now, and that works for me. So I guess we all do it a little bit differently, you know, you You know, I would never, I, I, this up this. feeling of. of. being alive and hopeful and, joyful for the substitute of, Something was helpful that wasn't so, Yeah. and I, I guess one more thing that I really learned really learned process the Process of the the whole was that journey was actually. I'm I'm actually not broken. not this. this Broken thing that that just this whole was this beautiful human being human being that, that, was trying to do the best I could Do the best I could but and. and. now now I can. and now I I now I can have more grace and compassion for myself for way I did behave. And, that's okay because I did the best I could. So.

Justine Clark: 18:51

You've just answered the question I was gonna ask you, which was, what's the most surprising thing about being an alcohol freedom finder? And that's so true, isn't it? That ultimately we think it's about alcohol, but it's actually not about alcohol at all. It's about coming back to a place of self-compassion and. one of our coaches always says, because human, you know, that's why we do, that's why we make mistakes because we're human. And to have that compassion is just, it's such a relief, isn't it? It's such a relief. so what would you say to, to somebody else who has maybe not yet done the pause, but has tried a few times? what would you say to somebody else? that was trying to reframe their relationship with alcohol, what advice would you give them?

Susan Stout: 19:39

I would say don't agree to reach out for help reach for however that that because, because, It's, it's, can be, it, a difficult journey journey and there's there's such power and in getting getting help and, and, you still have to do, You still have to do, work willing and be open, and be but the faster you can the faster you can. better you'll feel. And I, that's what I would've told myself too, is don't let, don't let this, preconceived idea that you have hold you back. Because just to swing it back a little bit to my father who over drank and was called an alcoholic, I, I know that he was a loving and beautiful human being And he, he loved us. he, so I don't define him by that and. If he would've had the opportunity to get help, imagine what that would've been for him. So, yeah. I.

Barry Condon: 20:41

Yeah, that's really good advice. I mean, I think, and that it, it, it comes a lot back to, to the shame and also to the way that the society sets us up to, to. To feel as if it's, it's something that we should be able to do and that, and, and that, that, that, you know, the drink responsibly again. and, and so we're, we're, you know, we look at other people and think, oh, they've got it all under control, and, and why haven't we? And you know, if we're struggling, then we need to. Need to keep it quiet and, and, and, and you know, like you're saying, a white knuckle it. And, and, and I think, you know, we, it's, it's like you said, it's not, it's not our fault, you know, it's, it's an addictive substance. And, and if you use it in enough of those scenarios and it becomes a sort of, go-to, crutch or, or, or, you know, treat or whatever, whatever it means to you, then it's gonna worm its way in. And, you know, some people it worms its way in faster than others. But, but, yeah, and like you said, it, it, it's, it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility. And, and that doesn't mean you have to do it all on your own. It, it just means, you know, you, you know, just put your hand up and say, I'm struggling here. Or, you know, find a book, find a a group, find a, a, a a, you know, a podcast for instance. You know, just, you know, and find a community that, that, that will, that you resonate with. that, that, You know, it, it really does help. you know, just saying it out loud to yourself or Yeah, just saying it in the mirror. Just, you know, actually I need to do something about this, you know? Oh, it, it can feel like a, a bit of a weight off your shoulders so you can feel like, okay, yeah, okay, I've said it now. Then, you know, what's the next step? And just try and think of, you know, what, what, what step could I do, that would take me in the direction I want? I want to go in, rather than sort of feeling crippled by the, the, the, the fear of, you know, what might, what might people think or, shoulding yourself into sort of like, I should be able to do it, but

Susan Stout: 22:22

I love that. I love that very, and I. that, Barry. Also makes me think of, also makes how how, as we think know, sometimes when we're comparing ourselves to the ourselves to outside people that outside outer, outer facing, outer facing version of people, we inside. insides, and we think, oh gosh, here I am, I'm a wreck. And, and look at them. They look so, and we just never know what other people And, you through. know. you know, you we all don't have mechanisms, whether sugar or sugar or whatever, and, and, and not necessary to have shame. have the shame. it's just so just so liberating to get your confidence back back you once you, can tackle that, So, so that I, I love that that we, comparison to others is just not, is just not, helpful.

Justine Clark: 23:10

and, and also not just comparison to others. Yeah. but comparison, I'm just thinking from what you were saying earlier about, our relat thinking about your dad, what you said about him being this loving, kind human. I, I, I pride myself on being a wellbeing therapist that's really there for people. And I've always been an empath. My mother was an empath. It really is a very strong feature in my personality. And so when, when I was out a night out six years ago and somebody said to me. I'm not gonna go out with you again. If you're drinking, your personality changes and you're not a very nice person. It's so horrifying.'cause I didn't think that, that this was about personality change. I didn't think that this was about, actually, I'm not a vulnerable, authentic version of myself. I'm a different version of myself. I never even factored in that part of alcohol when we were, were growing up and drinking. I never thought at all for a second that it would, that it would. Change my personality and that I would be somebody that instead of being seen as a, a loving and kind and wonderful mother from being someone that my daughter said when she was about 10, oh mum, mummy, promise you won't drink when I grow up and get married. I,

Susan Stout: 24:23

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 24:24

so I was just wondering what, you know, what you would say, new adventures, experiences, feelings in yourself that you have now that. You are not your father, and we can all see your loving, kind, generous self. What, how does that come up for you? I.

Susan Stout: 24:47

I think it's just finding. finding my finding. does make me tick and and what is important me, And having the confidence to explore it further. yeah, and the confidence to confidence to myself into blame everything everything that on on what my prior behavior was. Now I can, if something happens, I can, I can look at that. I can I can, independently and be, oh. This happened, and I Instead of always having this of thing that's this. that's wrong with me. so And so yeah, the, the confidence was the biggest confidence. Really? Yeah.

Barry Condon: 25:39

And maybe it's a good time to ask those that ask the, the question we ask everybody that at the, the. Three words that describe, that best describe your, journey to what your what finding freedom from alcohol means to you.

Susan Stout: 25:53

I think, I I think, hope is big in there, that future the future is, hopeful instead of this heavy. how can I manage I now? now it's, oh, what is out there? And so that's a big one. and right beside like that is is joy now now I didn't realize that. realize that. point for joy had been just knocked down so low. I. as I was numbing out. And coping and doing all the things. I didn't realize that alcohol was also stealing my everyday joy. I went hiking with my family recently and I was flooded with Being in the sunshine and being with them, and them, and I'm like, like, it's just, I just, joy. It's joy huge and It's abundant. and the last thing is. the last thing is, connection. Because because. Because is really is really the magic of life, is finding the connections to myself to myself and to other people. and so yeah, I think those are my three words. I.

Justine Clark: 27:09

I couldn't agree more. And the ability to show up for yourself and show up for others, and I'm sure it just helps your coaching business go from strength to strength. So if people are looking to, find out more about your coaching or, how you might be able to help them, what should they do? Susan? I'm

Susan Stout: 27:30

I'm I'm on social media, media, on Facebook and Instagram my business is Stout Coaching, coaching, website is there as well there as well.com. Just, yeah, Just, look me up and let's connect let's and. and. you don't have to do this alone. So, yeah, I'd love to read, I'd love to connect with you.

Barry Condon: 27:53

That's brilliant, Susan. Yeah, I mean, I love, I love that those three words were brilliant. You know, that, that joy and, and connection. I, I really particularly resonate with that idea that, that, you know, it was the, my biggest surprise was, you know, I thought that alcohol was, was the only part of my day that was giving me joy. But it turns out, you know, it gave it back a little bit at the end of the day, but actually when he'd take it away. your, like you said, your, your, your, your set point or your baseline rises and you can actually enjoy the rest of the day. And it's not like get through the day so you can have a drink at the end of it. It's, it's actually you can enjoy the whole day. And, and yeah. And getting back into that connection as well is, you know, that, you know, it, it's, is it, Johan Hari, talks about the, the connection being the, the opposite of addiction and, it, it, it really is, you know, an amazing thing.

Justine Clark: 28:42

And one last thing I just realized, it's like when you start to have that connection, it's like your little balloon. Rather than being blown up with the air, it gets blown up with helium. It's this, it's this kind of uplifting feeling, right? So yeah, we get helium balloons instead. Yes.

Susan Stout: 29:02

Yes. Or

Justine Clark: 29:03

Yeah, exactly. We get huff and gas in our balloons instead. Literally. I love that so much. Thanks so much, Susan. Thank you guys.

Susan Stout: 29:13

Thank you guys. It's been lovely be with you