0:00

This is Alcohol Freedom Finders. This week we are joined by a fellow of the Royal Society of Chemistry, which is definitely a first for us. Dr. Michelle Lynch is an expert in the field of sustainability, and while her work focuses her attention on experimental research to improve the future for us all, it was when she put her own life under the microscope and applied the same curiosity and experimentation to her relationship with alcohol, that she improved the future for herself. Let's hear all about how she did it.

Barry Condon: 0:28

Welcome to, alcohol Freedom Finders with me, Barry Condon and my fantastic, colleague Justin Clark. Today, we're excited to have with this, Dr. Michelle Lynch, who is, business owner in the sustainable technologies field and, is a, exponent for, the alcohol freedom lifestyle and is, taking on a new phase of her life, moving around the world and is joining us today from Mosca, where potentially she, might be taking up her primary residence. So, welcome to you, Michelle. Nice to have you with us.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 1:00

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

Justine Clark: 1:02

here. And I'm so, I mean, I don't know the first thing about Muscat, so I have to hear about that too. But first of all, most importantly, what led you to becoming alcohol free? And, what, tell us about your journey. How did you end up where you are?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 1:16

Sure. And, I think it's fair to say that I never had a straightforward relationship with alcohol. It was something that, there was a little bit of a love hate relationship with it that,

Barry Condon: 1:26

relationship.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 1:27

sometimes I drank it and I felt better and I felt happier, and I. kind of the, kind of social energy and glue that you might expect from it. And other times when it just became a bit of a burden. And I think that was the case for a long time actually, for almost the entire journey with it. And I was always, tr attempting to have some long breaks from it. And I was that kind of person in terms of the drinking pattern. So I would have very long breaks from it. But when I did drink it, it, it didn't have this, this sort of, kind of feeling of it's just gonna be something, I have one drink or two drinks, and then I feel content and I go away from it. It never left a feeling of contentment. and so it, it kind of became an issue that it became too many drinks at one time. and then all the negative impacts of that. Yeah,

Barry Condon: 2:19

and.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 2:19

that kind of went on for a long time prior to me kind of reach, kind of getting to the point, you know, like a car hitting the brakes or, or kind of slowing down and pressing the brakes and saying, actually, I might like to just stop.

Barry Condon: 2:33

That's interesting. I mean, I, I've, I've not thought of it like that before. The, the, but you're, you're right, the, the. The way that it's, that alcohol something that never satisfies. It's, it, it's in a, and it's kind of an innate thing in, in dopamine itself. That, that is kind of the, the, the, the driver of, of why we drink, is dopamine. Is, is, is we sort of think of it as the reward, but it's actually more of a, a reminder to do more. And it's, you know, it, it motivates us to keep going, keep going, keep going. And it's meant to be, more of a thing that, that, you know. A, a, a survival mechanism for things that are scarce. But when alcohol's everywhere, it's, it's, it's, it, it can be something that, that, that we, we latch onto and is, and can be very dangerous. So, so when did you decide, okay, I need to do something different or, take a different approach or how did you get into the, the change itself?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 3:20

So, it really came about, just before the pandemic began. and I was on a huge health drive actually, and I hadn't had alcohol for months. And this was in, 2020 and of. Really fit and really happy and healthy. And then I put my house up to sale, made a relocation from London to the West Midlands. And, it, it was multiple things, that were stressful at the same time, and, complications that I wasn't expecting with that move, bereavements and other things going on, that once I started drinking again, the strange thing was, is that after long periods of not drinking. The rebound effect was quite pronounced, and it's something I really noticed over those following years when, I was also, because it was in my late forties, perimenopausal, and then menopausal. And I think that, you know, there's some evidence, you know, that that can affect all these neurotransmitter levels and we haven't really linked, or I hadn't linked. Hormones has grown neurotransmitters until, recent, you know, recently when I did work around it. But essentially, this kind of stopping and starting was getting much more pronounced and I was noticing and thinking that's really strange how the signals coming to me are getting stronger every time I try to stop. So actually I'm probably just gonna have to completely stop. That's what, led me to start looking into people who don't drink at all. So I looked a lot at Instagram things. I read books by people who stopped drinking. I read books by people who were very frank and honest about being childhood alcoholics or people with alcohol use disorder. and so I learned a lot about that before and after. And what really got me actually was this before and after thing, before and after photos, before and after stories. And I looked at it and said, I want a before and and after story. And I particularly want my after story.

Justine Clark: 5:06

I, I love that so much. And I, I keep thinking of that, that is it Mick Jagger song, I Can't Get No Satisfaction, and it's like, yeah, I, I really resonate with what you're saying there because. You know, when you start, I, I reckon as soon as you realize that this isn't very satisfying and, and, and you're not quite getting enough, and that you're gonna need more, as soon as that starts being a thought that you have around any substance, but alcohol in this instance, I think it's game over. I think it, it's diminishing returns. And I noticed as well, after an 18 month break when I went back to it, that it was, you know. I, I, I knew then and there that this, was never gonna be enough that was gonna make me feel satisfied. It was never gonna do what it used to do. And that there was gonna have to be a different way forward. So how did you find your way forward this time that stuck.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 6:00

It was, it was a mixture of really, leaning into the curiosity. So Connor's, maybe a year and a half before I stopped. I was reading, books, listening to audio books and other things that, Described other people's journeys. And I started to really lean into that. What would we like if we didn't drink at all? And then, looking at lots of posts and seeing that other people, were showing what they'd learned once we stopped drinking, all the things they'd learned and all the things they'd improved. And so, on the one hand that was going on, and on the other hand, I was looking at me, I was at my body. I was looking at my ability to work all of it, you know, kind of suboptimal to say the least, and at the heaviest weight I'd ever been in 2022. and also things like, getting a croaky voice because the weight and the alcohol was doing things like drying my throat and I need to train for one of my jobs is a, is a trainer. 15 minutes into a five hour session, my voice was getting dry and cro so it was, it had become practically, it was unworkable. it was having a severe impact on my physical and mental health. and I could see a way forward and I could see what was on the other side. And so I stopped. I started looking at it as problems on this side of the equations and benefits on the other side. So that's what maybe jump through the, jump through the portal and say, well, I'm not going back there. Because even though there's all these little triggers and things saying, oh, wouldn't it be nice? Don't you remember that pub? Don't you remember this glass? Don't you remember that wine you liked? At least have triggers. And look at these pretty bows on this bottle. One, look at your friends having fun with this. What are you doing? Come back to us. Come back. And it's like, no, I know it's not real. So got grounded in reality and stayed on. Stayed on the safe side of.

Barry Condon: 7:48

That's brilliant. That's brilliant. And, and so how was that? Did, I mean, did you just sort of from one day to the next in the end, you know, did you sort of draw a line in the sound, okay today, that's it, I'm done. Or, or, or, or was it a gradual thing? from then

Dr Michelle Lynch: 8:00

It was like, it was like stop starts. It was a series of in 2022, kind of stopped for three months, then went back and it immediately became a problem within a day. It's like, it was just strange how I didn't go back and have one drink. I went back and I had maybe 12 drinks over that weekend and thinking, well, I haven't drank for months. Surely my tolerance and everything would've adjusted, and I'd only have one. But no, it's this, it's this vicious rebound. and then it was like, okay, I'll stop again. And then I think there were maybe two more times in 2022. Ending in, it was around, it was around August and then another three week break. One conference, one sip of a glass of wine, led to another two bottles that weekend. And then I woke up on the Saturday, the morning, September 10th and said, that's it. No more, absolutely no more. I can't make this work. I can't, I can't adjust or do any of those magical things. Some done and that was my, I'm done moment and it's unthinkable for me now to go back and do it again. It's not to say it won't ever happen because I sense it, sometimes I sense it like just kind of like, not, it's almost like it's kind of trying to find a weak point. It's going around like this close and trying to find a little weak point to get in. Yeah. It's really creepy when I. I'm aware and I just, and monitor my triggers, but I don't, I couldn't ever see myself wanting willingly to go back to that.

Justine Clark: 9:25

talking about this.'cause I, I really, I, when you are talking, I can really feel myself having those thoughts. I, I really, I, it's like,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 9:33

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Justine Clark: 9:34

reach out and get that. I could just stop at that bottle shop and, and buy that wine just as easy. I, I could actually hold a wine glass that's full of, with that cold wine in it, and I could just drink it. I know what it tastes like. It's, and it's almost like, a fear and a repulsion and excitement and it, like, me of that standing on the edge of a, of a, of a height and going, I could actually go, you know, it's like, Yeah. But it's, it's,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 10:04

Mm-hmm.

Justine Clark: 10:04

actually scarier. It's scarier than being on a clifftop because it's, it's so, it could come in the room at any minute. It's always, you know, it is ever present once alcohol's been there. and I don't think people realize, because we've all drunk by auto enrollment for our, our whole lives. you know, since we are young adults, it's been in every social, social situation at every opportunity. So we're actually having to choose to say no rather than the other way round. so I love, I love how you're talking about that.

10:36

If you're looking to take back control of your drinking, why don't you join our Alcohol Freedom Finders 30 day group program. It's a great place to start. Because we approach it as an experiment, rather than a challenge. Whereas, as well as getting a great detox, you learn the science and the psychology about why you're drunk in the first place. So whether you want to stop altogether, or just become a more mindful and moderate drinker, why don't you give it a crack? Use the link in the show notes to sign up to our next 30 day program, and you won't regret it. Because no one ever woke up in the morning and said, I wish I'd had more to drink last night, did they? Back to the episode.

Justine Clark: 11:16

let's talk about some positive things. Now. Let's talk about like, you have done this, what's on the other, what's been on the other side of, of, of this now? What are some of the positives that you've experienced?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 11:27

so yeah,

Barry Condon: 11:28

yeah.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 11:28

lots of positives and,

Barry Condon: 11:30

And,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 11:30

everything, everything has just got so much better. I, I studied for a battery MBA, successfully studied over kind of two, three months, gained a battery MBA, expanded my business. Real desire to expand my training business. it's one of the most satisfying things for me is teaching people and mentoring, and preparing people for their careers. so I've been, very successful in the last 18 months, expanding that. I'm traveling. I obviously sold my, sold my property in, in the uk and this has been something I wanted to do for several years.

Barry Condon: 12:03

years.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 12:04

And finally kind of made it all the things are in storage. I'm, I'm now traveling around and investigating where else I might like to, to stay for a few months of the year, and meeting new people. And the idea really was to kind of be exposed to lots of different viewpoints and cultures and places. because perhaps one of the things that alcohol's very good at doing is isolating us and telling us not to expand our world and to, Reduce our expectations. That might not be the case for everyone. I know lots of people travel and they have alcohol in different countries, but, it doesn't work for everyone. So, yeah, I've been able to fulfill a of long term ambitions, since I stopped, drinking.

Barry Condon: 12:44

And have you, have you found it easy to interact with these new people? You know, do people ask you, you know, oh, oh, do you not drink? Or, why do you not drink? And, and, and have you found an easy way to, to deal with that?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 12:57

Hmm.

Barry Condon: 12:57

or was that something you had to learn?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 12:59

Well, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's an interesting one because initially,

Barry Condon: 13:02

initially,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 13:03

a lot of people breathe a sigh of relief that I didn't drink anymore, but some people. kind of, well, can't you just have a middle? Can't you just have two? And it was like, well, what does two mean? I, I, I really sort of, invite people to think about what they're saying a bit more now when they say, just have two, because two doesn't, two went from being two units to being two glasses. And we know that those glasses now are sometimes 250 meals. So two is actually six units, at least, you know, it can be six units. So, No, I don't buy into this idea that, you know, I can't have two. So I had to explain that to people and, and it, some people were distanced, they distanced themselves for that reason, which is fine. That's, that's their decision. and so one of the challenges is, is to get involved with people who are happy to have times when, and I, I don't mind if people drink around me. I really don't have a problem with it. But obviously it's, it's, it's, it is different. So, Yeah, it's changed my social life. I do interact with people who are not drinking. I prefer in honesty to do that. and it's interesting when I come to regions where it's not, a popular part of culture to explain that even though I'm a Western lady, that when I come into a hotel, I don't want to be directed to the, to the bar. that I actually want to sit in the parts of the hotel and to be in the, into the parts where there's no alcohol being drunk. So, it.

Barry Condon: 14:25

So,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 14:25

an image that as western people we have that we drink alcohol. and it takes some explaining that actually not everybody does, and I'm.

Justine Clark: 14:33

Isn't that fascinating, that it's a western culture thing as well, and that as travelers, other cultures identify us as drinkers, they must just think that we are, vulgar and. all those, you know, what, which we are, I think, and, and, but anyway, enough about that. I'm, I'm just interested to know now that you're on the other side and, and I think people who are still toying with the idea of moderation or stopping entirely, for you is something that's surprising that you didn't realize would happen for you on the other side? For me it is, I've really noticed how nature. seems, I used to feel like I was walking in nature and I get that get, oh, I'm walking in nature. That's nice. But I didn't notice how actually nature comes and communicates to you, through, you know, rippling water. Or a breeze. And a leaf because we are not present to the noise that I hear about. Oh, I need a drink, or Should go and get a drink, or I've got a hangover. There's more space for nature to, to come in and be soothing. What surprises have there been for you in your life, you didn't expect?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 15:47

Mm-hmm. Yes. As as we're both hikers, I can fully appreciate that feeling of, being able to soak up nature and even I notice animals a lot more, actually. I notice how. Animals communicate and birds and, you know, feeling more connected to, you know, nature and wildlife. And that's, that's wonderful. it's also, it was also something that prompted me to stop was this promise that. You could pick up a glass of water or you know, a glass of a non-alcoholic drink and enjoy it just as much and relax just as much. And I, I had, I had to experience it to believe it, but it was just, it's just so true. And it's, it's just so funny that, that, It, it maybe it's a bit like when you stop smoking and I've

Barry Condon: 16:34

it's a

Dr Michelle Lynch: 16:34

really smoked, but if you know that feeling of just holding a pen or something, it's, it is true that I can have a lovely, non-alcoholic drink and come away feeling just as relaxed that as the entire, it was all the other bits of the experience besides the alcohol were actually making it nice. So that, that was a pleasant surprise. And that, so that's something I would invite anybody who's curious to think about. what else? There's also the, ability to see my personality as it is without alcohol Is and to see my traits because, traits because, you can't blame alcohol for anything anymore. You can't attribute things to alcohol anymore. So whatever. I'm like, and my thought processes, my behavior all has to be attributed to something else. and it wasn't long. Interest after stopped drinking, I found out that I had, combined a DHD and after that, that I had autistic traits. So now I'm having to go back and alcohol isn't really the main thing anymore. It's, it's going back and looking at my life as, framing everything from, from that perspective and seeing that actually a lot of the struggles I had weren't, weren't, they weren't, so alcohol wasn't the cause. It was actually one of. A kind of a bad solution to the right problem, but now I, I look, yeah, it gave me the ability to go away and find the right, not necessarily solutions, but, but, you know, lifestyle and, confidence in being who I am. So I don't apologize for who I'm anymore. I don't tell people, well, the fact that I'm interested in a hundred different things and the fact that I'll go very deep when I do look at things, I'm not going to apologize for that anymore. It's me and, I can be flexible, but I'm not going to use a substance or do something to mask who I am.

Barry Condon: 18:19

I love that. I love that. And, and, and I think that there's lot of, new understanding now in around neurodivergency and, and also it's, it's relationship to even, yeah. To, to drink, to drinking. you, have you, have you looked at that yourself? Have, have you looked at the, maybe now looking back, you know. as you said, you know, the, the idea, often that drink is a solution, a bad solution perhaps, but it's not necessarily the problem People hear, I've got a drink problem. Well, no, the, the problem is maybe something else. and I, have you been able to sort of link that to, the, the, the, the neurodivergency that you're now becoming aware

Dr Michelle Lynch: 18:56

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I, I think that, and I'm not obviously any kind of expert on neuroscience or anything like this. Initial understanding is that in a, in some people who are neurodivergent or have a DHD, that there is, science around the dopamine mechanisms not working optimally and other neurotransmitters like neurocrine. and, and the fact that as you get older, especially as a, as a woman when you reach the perimenopause and menopause, that your neurotransmitters are changing quite radically. So people think of us, at my a a lady at my age as, having hormone changes, but actually the hormones, and, things like dopamine are working together in tandem. So, what I, So. The neurodivergence, the, a stage of my life, all of that was going to play to, a kind of, push my cravings. And so it was another good reason to stop drinking, but also to look at what I can do to manage those and what, what can I do to balance them? So with a mixture of therapies and medications and lifestyle to get a, a better solution to managing. Brain chemistry. and yeah, so it's, it's, it's great to be in that position of awareness and to understand why it's so important not to do things that will push my brain chemistry and my, hormones and neurotransmitters in, into a complete state of imbalance. That's just not good for me.

Justine Clark: 20:20

Yeah, I, I, I. I couldn't agree with you more personally. I found it so frustrating as a, a wellbeing therapist and someone who'd had, you know, illness in my childhood and beyond, why would I be doing something that was making me feel unwell and I knew it was making me feel unwell. I mean, we all know that a hangover mate is, is us being unwell. I, I felt like I was not, you know how you've got that feeling that you are, if only I could do that one thing, then everything would be okay. Well now, now I've done that one thing. I've done the one thing. So, like you said earlier,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 20:56

Yes.

Justine Clark: 20:57

be

Dr Michelle Lynch: 20:57

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 20:58

And I I

Dr Michelle Lynch: 20:59

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 20:59

you, how does it play forward?'cause now all of a sudden I'm, I'm playing it forward. I'm going, there's nothing to stop me living a really long, healthy life because everything I do now is proactively doing things like, oh. What could I eat that's gonna improve things? What can I listen to that's gonna improve? Like, I'm, I'm not saying I'm some kind of fully formed perfect creature. I do love my chocolate and I will eat it. and I still have an aches and pains, but I feel like I can see the path ahead now and have some chance of following it somewhere. What about you playing it forward? Where do you see yourself heading that maybe you didn't think possible in the past?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 21:40

it's, it's a mixture of, on one hand, looking at what I want to achieve and going for it and having the means and the energy and the clarity in my thinking to achieve it. But it's also getting rid of that, over confidence and overoptimism that you sometimes have. Like, I think I saw a meme or internet post once that said like, you know, with alcohol you'll create all kinds of dreams that you think you can achieve. And then. When you're sober, you know, you'll realize you weren't achieving any of them, but, but you, you know, you might have fewer and you might have less kind of, unrealistic dreams. You'll have realistic dreams and you be able to achieve

Justine Clark: 22:18

Hmm.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 22:18

those. I, I think that's the way I'm seeing it, that I'm actually trying to remove my overwhelm,'cause overwhelm, was part of my issues in the past, but because I like to look at so many different things, I'm interested one of. Downsides to that is that you can easily get overwhelmed. So I have, I have sort of two or three top realistic ambitions, like training and kind of, learning more about specific topics and just being content. So actually been content to have fewer things on my but to do me well. And alongside that, to have a nice life, to have a good work life balance. So, you know, going out in nature more, enjoying some more hobbies, taking up writing. I like to write, I like to blog. And, yeah, so, so trying to get a bit more of a life work balance as well.

Justine Clark: 23:07

To circle back to what you said about going, I just want to keep things, you know, do less'cause I suffer with overwhelm, but you're telling me that you're living in Moscot and that you want to be able to travel from, place to place and you are writing and

Dr Michelle Lynch: 23:22

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 23:24

far more possibly than you, you could ever have imagined. And, and you are thinking that that's not doing much.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 23:32

Yeah. Yes, indeed. And, it's, it's one of my things that, yeah, I, I just have so many things that I want to do and, I want to do just enough of them. That makes life fun without being overwhelmed. So one of the things I have is like, try just try to pack a case, you know, and getting from one place to another without losing things or forgetting things and kind of having too much with me and then still thinking, oh, I still don't have that thing with me that I wanted. So one of the, one of the funny end things about moving around is, having to get used to not having so much stuff with you. which is, yeah, it's, if you are used to having everything in a house and everything in its right place, then, then that's something to get used to.

Justine Clark: 24:13

I have to

Dr Michelle Lynch: 24:13

but, yeah, I'm sure that

Justine Clark: 24:15

that I literally just moved countries and I. Spent six months waiting for

Dr Michelle Lynch: 24:20

mm-hmm.

Justine Clark: 24:21

shipping to come over and hand on heart the week before it arrived. I'm like, I don't care if none of that stuff arrives. I just don't need the stuff anymore. I think that's, that's got a

Dr Michelle Lynch: 24:33

Mm-hmm.

Justine Clark: 24:33

for, for alcohol as well, that actually it is the equivalent of having lots of stuff around us because it sort of packs us in nice and tightly into a little mental box. And actually we don't need the stuff anymore.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 24:50

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so it is true, but even though, you know, I, I'm talking about going from a house, like a three bedroom house to a suitcase. So 30 kilos of belongings coming with you is still quite a lot to take around frequently, but 30 kilos of belongings versus an entire house. So. Yeah, we, we do tend to, to cluster our lives up a lot and to, to lose a lot of energy that all the energy leakage to places that's really unproductive. So what I'm trying to do is have kind of energy that's well used, you and, and enough leftover to, do the work, all the self-care. So I'm sure as, as a wellbeing therapist, Justine, you can understand. But if you use 99 or 105% of your energy on work and on travel. you, what do you have left over to look after yourself. And actually sometimes I think, isn't there, isn't there something about, hungry? It's a halt. It's hungry, angry, lonely, tired, isn't it? The four reasons why people just go and have a drink because they're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired, and. that's what you get if you're overwhelmed. So for me, that's a real part of my self care is to try to leave a good 20% or a chunk of energy for just relaxing and taking care of myself.

Barry Condon: 26:04

great. And I think that's, that's part of the, the difficulty or for me it was the main difficulty that illusion that, that it does give you that relief. Briefly and, and is, and is actually sort of spiraling you down. but to, give the space for other things, to. to fulfill you and, give other areas of life a chance to give you that enjoyment is counterintuitive because, my only relief at the end of the day is to have a drink and then I can relax or the only way I can feel confident enough to be in public or be with people and socialize or do a certain thing, can be to have a couple of drinks and then I can. You know, be the person that I think I ought to be. to step away from that feels very counterintuitive, but when you do, it gives space for you to be that more authentic person and, and, and feel, act, genuine confidence. how have you, now, know, how do you now feel, in yourself, confidence wise? Do you feel, more confident or, or, or, more comfortable in, in social situations, for instance?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 27:04

I, I think I'm more aware of my discomfort in social situations, which even though it doesn't sound positive, is better to know that and to do something about it than to pretend for the rest of your life that you are comfortable and use a drink of alcohol or something, and. To, to kind of not be genuine. So I'm living a genuine life, which is actually, I'm gonna turn down 90% of the social occasions I'm offered. and also the, to really enjoy my time alone. And I really do enjoy it because, you know, I like to research and I actually would really like to just take up painting. I was never something I was traditionally associated being very good at. But, I really enjoy art and culture so. Yeah, I'd be quite happy instead of going out to just sit and draw and paint or write or listen to music. And I love music as well, and I love singing. So, there's multiple ways to get to deal with the halt, factors. And, so without alcohol, I'm free to kind of go around and try them all and I might try things and go actually focus on. Things that have a higher, kind of joy benefit because really what we want out out of life is joy and contentment. And that chart, there's a chart from, I'm sure you know, the, the lady, Jen Lee Hurst, which she shows this chart of what happens to your dopamine when you drink and it's spiking up a huge spike and then this huge long tail of suboptimal, as opposed to finding things that just give you mini. Many enjoyment moments, many moments of joy all day long. I mean, who would, who can resist many moments of joy all day long rather than has and stressful day long, and a drink at night?

Justine Clark: 28:41

Couldn't, I couldn't. Yep. Yep.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 28:43

That's how I like to look at it.

Justine Clark: 28:44

And if you

Dr Michelle Lynch: 28:45

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 28:45

you speak about music. Well, painting and drawing releases a hormone we don't get elsewhere, which is the joy of, learning how to make mistakes and then feel that it's coming along. I think it's acetylcholine is the. Is that the,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 29:01

Mm-hmm.

Justine Clark: 29:02

hormone. it's, it's Italian word for it is

Dr Michelle Lynch: 29:05

Mm-hmm.

Justine Clark: 29:06

which is the movement of making mistakes, actually creating something organic and beautiful. My art teacher will tell me off. I haven't said it right, but anyway. And then the second one, of course, with singing and humming and chanting, it's all about resetting the vagus nerve, which is our. Social engagement, part of our nervous system, that that naturally is gonna elevate, elevate us, and keep us in connection. So the things you're mentioning genuinely are going to make us feel better. So rather than chasing something that is going to only make us feel poorly in the long run is a no brainer. Well, it is for us three. and I hope more people can, get on board along with us. And we like to wrap up by asking one final question, which is. It may be difficult, which is what three words resonate most for you about being an alcohol freedom finder?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 29:58

Yeah, this, this was a. So many, I'm sure you can imagine. What should I come up with?

Justine Clark: 30:04

I.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 30:05

so I ended up with, awareness, energy, and boundaries. Those are my three.

Barry Condon: 30:12

Yeah. I

Dr Michelle Lynch: 30:12

yeah.

Barry Condon: 30:13

to expand on on those? Yeah.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 30:14

So the awareness is, kind of awareness of my, of my, of my standards, of my values. And, we didn't sort of go into it at all, but actually I understand my value system now much better than I ever did. And I set boundaries and standards much better than I ever did. And, you know, I will communicate them and say, this is okay for me. This is not okay for me. but, you know, somebody severely violates my boundaries and. You know, it behaves in a way that I don't think is commensurate with good, professional or good, good friendship then, then I will step away from it and I'm quite happy to close doors and say, this isn't for me right now and unless something changes, the awareness is also yeah, of my, how I feel, my triggers. I'm very aware of my triggers and managing them and either relieving myself from situations. Kind of doing some sort of self-soothing. So, so that would be kind of the aware, probably the awareness and the boundaries together actually. but the energy is, is, as we've spoken about, you have so much more energy, and so many more possibilities of doing nice things with it. So yeah, those are the three things since today at this moment, those are the three that I, I'd, I'd stick with.

Justine Clark: 31:29

get to choose what you expend your energy on rather than it being chosen for you.'cause you're sort of making you pre-selecting that my energy's gonna go here and then it's gonna go here, so I'm gonna have to go here. Whereas now we can choose like, oh, I'm feeling a little bit depleted. It's time to rest. Or, oh, I've got a bit more energy than I thought. What should I do for the next half hour? It that is a game changer. I. Energy. I love

Dr Michelle Lynch: 31:54

Yeah.

Justine Clark: 31:55

such a great

Dr Michelle Lynch: 31:55

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and I would honestly say to people, don't ever worry about filling your time because it's a funny thing that people say to me, well, what do you do if you're not drinking? It's like a hundred things that I always wanted to do. so, I think it's getting over that sort of kind of embarrassment to say to people I'm not gonna drink that you might initially have. And then, sort of showing, you know, you, you show, don't tell. I've clearly shown in the last two years how much nicer my life is and how happy I'm, and better choices I'm making. So, yeah,

Barry Condon: 32:32

so,

Dr Michelle Lynch: 32:33

it's working. So that's

Barry Condon: 32:34

Working

Dr Michelle Lynch: 32:35

could really say.

Barry Condon: 32:36

great. Michelle, it's been great talking to you. if people are interested in finding out more, about you or sustainable, Technologies, and how you might be able to mentor them, or, or tell'em a bit about Muscat, you know, where, where can people get hold of you?

Dr Michelle Lynch: 32:51

so they can, follow me on LinkedIn if they like, they can follow My company's Enable future. So, if you look for, for me or for Enable future on LinkedIn, you'll, you can find me there, or you can find me on, socials is m Misha Prana. So Misha Prana, that's some Instagram and Threads best ones.

Justine Clark: 33:11

Well, been, it is been an absolute pleasure

Barry Condon: 33:14

Great. Thanks very much.

Justine Clark: 33:16

I, I actually feel like we could be talking, go on and talk for hours. So thanks so much for joining us today.

Dr Michelle Lynch: 33:22

You're welcome.