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This is Alcohol Freedom Finders. In this episode, we meet Jeanette Levitt, whose drinking became a problem in the aftermath of a painful divorce. On re entering the dating world, she thought that drinking was the only way to appear confident and sexy. But when she found Alcohol Freedom herself, she realized that she'd been wrong. And as she puts it, there's actually nothing confident or sexy about being a sloppy drunk. She's now a coach who specializes in helping those navigating the same all too common challenges that she faced. Let's meet Jeanette.

Justine Clark 0:32

Welcome everybody to Alcohol Freedom Finders podcast with me Justine Clark and my fellow coach Barry Condon. Today we are super excited to welcome Jeanette Levitt with us. She was in our coaching cohort is a marvelous human being and also now specializes in the 3Ds. So Jeanette, why don't you tell us about those 3Ds?

Jeanette Levitt 0:59

So the three D's are, drinking, divorce, and then dating. So my story surrounds divorce and dating and, and, I mean, my drinking escalated during those, events, parts of my life. So, it seems like an appropriate niche for me.

Barry Condon 1:19

That's brilliant. why don't you. Talking of, of, your story, why don't you take us back to when you decided, it was something you, you do, you're drinking at least, was something you needed to change.

Jeanette Levitt 1:33

Okay. Okay. So. I was somewhat of a late bloomer, I guess, because my drinking escalated, when my life took a turn, that was really unexpected. So it was the divorce, that, that started, Drinking, more heavily. I really actually, I didn't drink very much during my marriage. I was raising 4 kids. So it's pretty much a pretty light drinker. but then the divorce was a surprise. and it was just a really difficult time. So that's when I started to, to just, Turn to alcohol to kind of help get me through some of it. and then there was just a series of other events. I mean, stuff happens at midlife as we all know. so, I, I lost my dad, my grandmother, and then I had a cancer diagnosis. was all like within a year. so it was just kind of, everything was kind of hitting. And yeah, I find myself just turning to alcohol to, to numb, and escape a lot of it.

Justine Clark 2:34

Yeah, I mean, I really resonate with that. I think that it's almost a surprise when you realize, hang on a minute, I've never been, I was never a heavy drinker. Why is it now that I'm the person drinking a bottle a day and looking for more going, that wasn't enough? It, it, it comes up, creeps up when you're, you start using it for, you know, other reasons other than socializing. When you start using it for yourself, And then all of a sudden it becomes a prop that you don't want to live without. So I really resonate with that from my own story, Jeanette, and thanks for sharing that.

Jeanette Levitt 3:07

yeah.

Justine Clark 3:07

How did you, how did you overcome that?

Jeanette Levitt 3:12

Well, it's, I mean, I think for a lot of, I was, I was pretty much a, a middle lane drinker, or a grey area drinker, where I was, I mean I was binge drinking, I wasn't a daily drinker, but I, I just, I knew it was becoming a real problem. I knew it was holding me back, but I just kept trying to, you know, be this drinker, you know, this normal drinker. And I would like set these rules in place. And then, you know, a few weeks later or whatever, I would break them. but I just had this nagging sense that I, this wasn't good for me. I just didn't, you know, I didn't know there were options out there. I, I, you know, I thought it was AA or, or nothing and I just didn't resonate with that. So, I just, I just kept on, you know, for years to be a better moderate drinker. and then, so it's almost three years ago that I, I had a friend who was going to do a dry January and she said, Oh, why don't we try, I heard this. Something called This Naked Mind. They have a live alcohol experiment. And we can do that at the same time as we're doing this Dry January. And I said, sure. and that was it for me. It was like, so I kind of Came in the side door, like I'd always had this nagging thing that I wanted to change my relationship with alcohol, but I just didn't know how to do it. And I was still had so many ties to alcohol and so many thoughts about why I really needed it and wanted it. But then I did the anti racist live alcohol experiment, and I just really latched onto it. It just made so much sense. You

Barry Condon 4:53

That's, that's brilliant. I mean, I, it's funny how, you know, the more times you hear someone's story, the, the more you realize that everybody just thought, oh, but I was the one with the problem and, and, and I wasn't normal and I wish I could be normal and, and why can't I drink like other people? You know, they didn't have a. They don't have a problem and yeah, and, and, you know, it's so silly if everyone had, if we'd just put our hands up to each other kind of thing and people would admit, that They're feeling a little bit feeling that you know, they're losing losing control And that it's no it's no big deal It's no nothing to be ashamed of it's just you know alcohol doing its thing Yeah, it's that that's that's yeah That's really really interesting to to hear it from from your point of view and also that that I can resonate fully with the the idea that AA seemed, seemed to me to be the only thing that was available. You know, if you had a problem, you go to AA and you admit, you know, you know, you, you've hit rock bottom and you know, I'm an alcoholic and, I need help and I'm powerless. And, you know, and you hear the story of them, you know, living day to day and, and never getting past it, but, you know, hanging on. and you know, for some people, lots of people, you know, that that has been a success, but for me, it just didn't speak to me. I just wanted I wanted either to not be a problem, and be able to keep on doing it. or for, you know, if I had to stop, then there had to be something better than than than constantly looking over my shoulder. I wanted, you know, once I did decide, okay, that I've moderated, I've tried, you know, and and failed to, To set boundaries and and and I've had enough of the impact it was having to, to at that point I was like, well, I need to make this right. I need to need for it to be okay. And, and like you, I was fairly quickly found, this naked mind and they showed, you know, that then you suddenly realize the people out there and there's philosophies out there and ways of thinking that you can, Turn it all around in your head and realize, Oh, actually, you know, I am better off without it. You know, I, I can, you know, it's not like life has to be awful without it. It's actually, Oh, it was holding, like you said, it was holding me back. And actually, this is better. That's better. This is better. That's better. And yeah, just fantastic. And, and so, for you, what, what's, I mean, how long did that take? How long did the process take before you sort of found that things were improving and that you were comfortable, in the decision that this was the right way to go?

Jeanette Levitt 7:33

Yeah. It's funny. I mean, I did not necessarily think that I was, going to stop forever. I mean, I, when I did the, the live alcohol experiment, know, I was all in and I, and I definitely wanted to do the 30 days, but I still, you know, I think in the back of my mind thought I was still trying to be a regular drinker, but then I got to the end of the 30 days and I was like, well, that went well, you know, I liked what I was, how I was feeling and I just, and then I had some momentum and I thought, well, let's, you know, Just keep going. I mean, I had of the things that was hard for me is that I was, I was in the dating world and I had one of the things that had stopped me for so long and really making a change is this feeling like I had to be a drinker if I was going to date, like who would want to, if I was showing up as a non drinker, people would assume that You know, that I was an alcoholic, they just wouldn't see me as funny or sexy or fun, and I had all these misguided beliefs about what that meant be a non drinker. So, I had been still sort of holding on to that, but I was You know, when I went into the alcohol experiment, it was January 1st. and I actually had a first date with somebody the next day, January 2nd. And I was able to say, you know, I was still sort of presenting like, okay, this is easy. I can, I can go on this date and explain like why I'm not going to order wine because I'm just doing a dry January, you know? So I didn't necessarily have to. you know, to say that I'm a non drinker necessarily, I'm just, I'm doing a, I'm doing this experiment but you know, I found that it went so much better than I thought it was going to be. I mean that date and then I ended up, I ended up actually being in that relationship for months or so and then had, had a couple other relationships and just realized, and now I'm in a beautiful relationship with somebody who's not much of a drinker and it's just like. I was able to dispel all these beliefs, about what that meant to be, you know, dating without alcohol. That is totally doable and that

Justine Clark 9:54

It is, yeah,

Jeanette Levitt 9:56

out.

Justine Clark 9:56

it is totally doable and you're not missing out, but you know, from, from really early on, a lot of us have used alcohol socially to give us that, you know, courage coat and to, to make us feel that we are, that we Funnier, prettier, you know, more successful, all of those things. What would you say your experience is as a non drinking dater? well actually, one of the things I was going to say is that you are still a drinker. This thing about us being non drinkers, we drink lots of different things. It's not that we're identified by this one thing which is, you know, You know, we don't get identified as non dairy eaters, or non sugar consumers, or non wheat eaters, but we have to classify ourselves as non drinkers. Well, actually, I am a drinker. I drink all sorts of amazing things, all day long.

Jeanette Levitt 10:47

Right.

Justine Clark 10:48

what would you say, what would you say to someone that's really curious about starting this dating, choosing to drink other things?

Jeanette Levitt 11:00

Yeah. I think, I mean, I can really speak to this because I've definitely, I have been in the dating world and I did. Date a lot and have relationships while I was a drinker. and, and when I was as what I would define kind of a problematic drinker too. I mean, I have, you know, I had some bad experiences that I'm not, you know, that I'm not proud of while I was. drinking too much and in the dating world, and now I've experienced the dating world and now I'm in a, in a good committed relationship, and I've navigated that without alcohol. So I can really say it is, it's so much better without alcohol. If you are at all feeling like your drinking is problematic, it's just so good to get that, to get a handle on that and to feel better about that and then be in the dating world. You don't have to be a drinker. There's so many good men out there who are happy to date someone who is not, you know, drinking to excess is not, or not drinking at all. it's just, you know, all of my beliefs about that have been totally turned around. They were just, they were nonsense. and it's just much better. So much it's, you can make a good connection and a real connection and a true connection. So much easier. it's just so much better without the haze of alcohol on top of it. and you just make better choices. and, you just show up better as yourself and they get to know the real you. It's just nothing. Yeah, I definitely, I was pretty wrong in some of my beliefs,

Barry Condon 12:47

But I think, I think it's so, counterintuitive to, because we sort of feel, you know, and it certainly counterculture because the, the, the culture tells us, you know, a bit of Dutch courage, you know, a bit of, you know, something to, to pep you up before you go. And, and, and when you get there, you know, you get, it'll cut, settle your nerves. And, and of course it does all of that in a way, but it's just numbing. It's just making you care less. it's making you less authentic. But it does have that warm and and and and and makes you feel in that moment makes you feel, you know, stronger and and and and more confident. but I think it's natural, you know, meeting someone for the first time and wanting it to go well and, and wondering what people are going to think of you and all that kind of stuff. It's gonna make you feel feel uncomfortable, gonna make you feel nervous and and and I think, you know, and it's natural to not want that. But in the end. I think I think you could probably testify that if you sit with it for and go through that for the first 5 10 minutes that, you know, things will, you know, you will calm down and and actually then you can connect and have the authentic moment. I don't know if you could speak to that.

Jeanette Levitt 13:58

Oh, absolutely. And I actually, to be honest with you, I actually think that like coming clean about being nervous like, so it is endearing and it's like, I think that's the way to go. I mean, men don't need to see you trying to cover it up with, you know, drinking glass after glass of wine. It's just not, it's, there's nothing wrong with showing up on a first date and, and saying, wow, yeah, that's, I'm, I'm so nervous. I, you know, what's going on? What about you? Like, and that's being real and like, people want someone who's real, not. I don't know. I think, you know, it's fine to be, be nervous and, and even to have it show,

Justine Clark 14:43

Exactly that, that vulnerability and, endearing, quality of ourselves, that that's what people are drawn towards, you know, the truth. We all, we're all looking for the truth and for people to like us. Right. what, what would you say would be like hints or, or tips for, for women who are. Just starting on that journey because that's sort of going well, you know, we always go to a bar. What type of adventures have you had and ways of dating that, that have been more exciting now that you're not going to a watering hole?

Jeanette Levitt 15:20

I do think there's, there's so many things that people can do date wise. So it's not like, I think a lot of people think, how could I date? Because everyone just meets for drinks. But obviously that's not true. We don't have to do that. And I think are happy to mix it up a bit and do something different. I mean, could walk your dog together on a first date, you know?

Justine Clark 15:43

Hmm.

Jeanette Levitt 15:44

picking up dog poop isn't so,

Barry Condon 15:46

Hmm.

Jeanette Levitt 15:47

isn't so sexy, but you know, I mean, you don't have to, a walk, a coffee, You know, and then there's just all kinds of fun dates in terms of whether it's, you know, going bowling, going for a hike, whatever. So it's, you know, I think, honestly, when it's just meeting at a bar every time, that is kind of boring. But I would say to people who are, you know, if you're just starting out and you're curious about your drinking to stay open to changing it, and I think if, I think if drinking is really problematic to you, it's good to Try to start getting that under control before dating, I think you can be sort of so recurrent, you know, it's okay to be doing both at once, meaning dating and also, working on your relationship with alcohol at the same time.

16:41

If you're looking to take back control of your drinking, why don't you join our Alcohol Freedom Finders 30 day group program. It's a great place to start. Because we approach it as an experiment, rather than a challenge. Whereas, as well as getting a great detox, you learn the science and the psychology about why you're drunk in the first place. So whether you want to stop altogether, or just become a more mindful and moderate drinker, why don't you give it a crack? Use the link in the show notes to sign up to our next 30 day program, and you won't regret it. Because no one ever woke up in the morning and said, I wish I'd had more to drink last night, did they? Back to the episode.

Barry Condon 17:21

I think what you touched on earlier is also, you know, what do you say to people? And, and, and we, we tend to sort of, you know, if we, if we, if we take a day off drinking or we take a week off, or you go on one date and you're not drinking, you feel like you have to confess your whole life history to, to, to, of drinking to them. And that's not true. I mean, you, you, you don't have to, admit anything, you know, like you said, you could just say, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm doing dry January, or, or I'm driving. Or, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, just doing a detox or whatever it is that you feel comfortable with. And, and, you know, that's partly, you know, we, we tend to overthink it and, and, and, and expect to be judged. so I don't, I mean, how, how did you, have you had any good and bad experiences with, with that in the dating world where people have, you must've been asked a few times, you know, why are you not drinking? How have you dealt with it? You know, in, in subsequent, occasions.

Jeanette Levitt 18:11

Yeah, I think we, we tend to assume that it's gonna be really you know, to, to address it. But it really, I think we make it bigger in our heads than it really is for the most part. And I think if we just, like you said, if you're early on and you're kind of experimenting, just say, you know, I'm taking, right, I'm taking time off or I just, I, I was overdoing it. I've been overdoing it over the holidays and just, I'm trying to, Drink a bit less, you know, I don't think you have to, you know, you don't necessarily want to be defensive or and also you don't necessarily want to be self righteous about it either. Like, you know, you know, that drinking is horrible and I'm whatever, but, I don't know. So I think just, having an open minded kind of relaxed approach to it and knowing that men are probably going to respond a lot better. and it's, they're going to take your lead on it too. I think if you are nervous and uptight about it and defensive about it, that, maybe they will, you know, have thoughts about it that you don't want them to. But I think for the most part, if, yeah, just having sort of a relaxed attitude about it saying you're, you're being curious and, There's so many, I, I think people will be surprised at how many men are happy to find women out there that are addressing problem drinking. It's nobody want, you know, you're just, your chances of having a nice relationship are so much better if, if, if you both have a good relationship with alcohol, whatever that means to you.

Justine Clark 19:49

For sure. And, and I, I, I love the fact that you're suggesting things like, Going for a walk, because we don't normally walk along with a glass of wine on our hand, right? And, and I love the idea of taking a dog and seeing, you know, how the other person interacts with the dog, whether they're able to pick up the, whatever, and put it in the bin or not. And you sort of would find out more about the other person if there's a sort of a, you know, a third entity with you. It gives you a focus that's not just, you know, Steering down the gunnels of each other across, across the table in the bar. And also it changes the, the, I don't know, the, the narrative arc of dating, because often what we're trying to get to is, do I want to kiss this person? Is the only question we, we are really, I mean, I'm speaking for myself here, not for others, that when I was dating, I was going, just trying to work out whether it was chemistry, and if you are in a bar, you're kind of shutting down lots of other avenues for exploring that. You're just looking at. there, at the end of this night, do I or don't I want to kiss this person? so I just wanted to speak to a little bit about the, that, elephant in the room, which is the intimacy side of things without alcohol. Because I think my fear would have been, how will I allow myself to, to do that if I don't have alcohol?

Jeanette Levitt 21:09

Yeah.

Justine Clark 21:10

So one is go for the walk instead, I get that. But if you're in a situation where, what do you talk, how do you speak to that sort of intimacy side and what's your experience?

Jeanette Levitt 21:20

Oh, I mean, if you meet, I mean, if you're talking in terms of, like, the fact that a lot of women think, Whoa, I can't, I could never have sex with somebody because I always have sex when I'm drinking.

Justine Clark 21:29

Mm hmm.

Jeanette Levitt 21:30

I mean, that's certainly not, That, I mean, I find that intimacy is so much better without the haze of alcohol in general, whether it's like all types of intimacy.

Justine Clark 21:41

Yeah.

Jeanette Levitt 21:42

so I've just found it to be, I just think dating and getting to know someone and get becoming intimate with them is so much better and, and richer and more enjoyable the haze of alcohol. And it's just like, it's just Better. I mean, not to be blunt, but sex is so much better alcohol. Um, and also because coming along, what comes along with like ditching alcohol is also just getting back in touch with yourself feeling so much better about yourself. And when you feel better about yourself, that, that impacts your relationship and your ability to connect with somebody, you know, that's why I feel like I don't think it's a surprise. You know, it's a coincidence that I've met somebody really special that I'm in a relationship, that feels good when I'm, you know, no longer drinking problematically. I mean, I'm not drinking at all, but I, I mean, as you said, Justine, I still drink, beverages, just not alcoholic ones.

Barry Condon 22:53

But that's pretty, I mean, because what you're talking about there is actually sort of your instead, because if the people will be thinking up, you know, I, I need it to be to even to dare to do that sort of thing. And I wouldn't have the confidence, you know, without it. And but you're what you're saying there is, if I'm right, is that is that actually, By not doing it, you develop the confidence by, by not drinking, you actually develop the confidence in yourself and, and, and you make, make genuine connection and, and, and, and I can imagine that there's going to be so much less regret and, and, and, you know, all those sort of things that, that, you end up doing things without thinking and, and yeah, I, I can, I can imagine,

Jeanette Levitt 23:35

Right.

Barry Condon 23:36

that being a real, real benefit.

Jeanette Levitt 23:40

Yeah, and you're just, I mean, to be honest, I think you're just more attractive. are. And that's why I think people, people think that you won't be successful, that you're going to have so much trouble dating, but actually, I, I think people often find that the reverse is true because you are. When you are alcohol free, you're feeling better about yourself. You're probably looking better about yourself. You're gaining confidence, whatever. That's sexy. That's sexy. Or not being of sloppy drunk. you know,

Justine Clark 24:13

Yeah, no, I totally agree. I had to go out last week with, went to a concert with my brother and all of his old school friends were there. He's two years younger than me, so all of these guys were, you know, two years younger than me in school. So they remember me as the kind of senior in school and were the juniors. So they were all like, Hi! I was like, I didn't know who any of these people, well, I knew who they were obviously, but they were boys when I last saw them. So all these men sort of, asking me how things were. And I felt, I felt really good about being able to stand up and go, be proud of my, be proud of myself from who I was then at 17 as a, you know, trans woman. doing well senior and in school to being, you know, a really strong independent woman that's still confident and out, not someone that was going, Oh God, this is, this is going to be awkward. And, I'm going to need to have some drinks to, in order to do this socially. So there's so much to gain. with not just dating, but, you know, after divorce, I imagine it's sort of, it's about all of your connections and relationships and how you actually just get back into society after, after drinking.

Jeanette Levitt 25:21

Mm hmm.

Justine Clark 25:22

so I wanted to ask you really towards the end of this conversation, speaking to that kind of all of your three Ds. given us your three words, really, with the three Ds, but what within that would you sort of say are the, are the, the key things that you, takeaways, what three words would be your key takeaways of, of focusing on those three Ds?

Jeanette Levitt 25:47

I mean, I think just, when you become alcohol free, just get more clarity in general. So being able to deal with, and navigate the difficulties of divorce and the dating world. You just like have a sense of clarity going forward. And then just, I mean, possibility, it's just opened up so many, possibilities to be without alcohol. and the third word I love, I mean, my, the name of my business is levity life coaching. So levity has to be in there. I just think, just being able to deal with life in a way that's kind of light, lighthearted and joyful is, is, um, key. Um

Barry Condon 26:25

That's really good. Really good. Well, I mean, it's been fantastic, to catch up and, and, and, to have you on the podcast. can you tell people, you know, who resonates? I'm sure there'll be lots of people who resonate with, with, your situation and, and would, would, you know, benefit from, spending time, in coaching calls with you. So how, how, can people get in contact with you and, and who are the people you'd like to serve?

Jeanette Levitt 26:52

around women in the divorce and dating world. So, you know, People that are struggling with drinking as they navigate those, those events in their life. on, my website is levitylifecoaching. com and, levitylifecoaching on Instagram. I've finally ventured into the world of social media. I've kind of resisted it for a bit. but yeah, I can be found there or listed as a coach on this Naked Minds website as well.

Barry Condon 27:19

Brilliant. Now, thanks so much

Jeanette Levitt 27:22

oh, thank you guys. This is wonderful. So nice to catch up with you. Finally.

Justine Clark 27:26

You too, Jeanette. Thanks so much.

Jeanette Levitt 27:29

Alrighty. Take care guys