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This is Alcohol Freedom Finders. In this episode, we meet coach Kate Nichols, a Brit living in Canada, who before finding freedom from alcohol and becoming a coach herself, saw herself as a happy social drinker. But that was before a family intervention during COVID lockdown made us see that swigging wine from a, from secretly stashed bottles in the closet wasn't quite as innocent as she'd been trying to make out to herself. Although the idea of not drinking terrified her at first, she quickly found the This Naked Mind methodology, and that changed her life, her relationships, and gave her the freedom she didn't even realize she was missing. Let's jump in.

Justine Clark: 0:41

Welcome everybody with Coach Justine and Coach Barry. We're really excited this week to have Coach Kate Nichols on the Alcohol Freedom Finders. Kate is also a This Naked Mind coach, so we're super excited to hear her perspective and a little bit more about her journey.

Barry Condon: 1:02

Hi Kate, great to see you. let me just jump straight in with a question. I'd like to just, why don't you, introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about how you found alcohol freedom yourself.

Kate Nichols: 1:13

Yeah. Well, hi, Justine and Barry. Thank you for having me. It's really nice to be here. so I'm coach Kate Nichols and I'm also a This Naked Mind coach like yourselves. I, my. change my, my, my decision to question my relationship with alcohol came about in 2021, when, during COVID, I noticed that my drinking was, increasing and it was becoming very important for me to get alcohol. When we weren't going out much. So, I noticed that my need around the desire to drink, changed at that point. And that's really when I started to, to question, my relationship with that.

Justine Clark: 1:53

That's such a common thing. I mean, how many people struggled with, with alcohol during COVID? So you speak to the masses there. So, you know, you, you noticed the problem. What did you do about it?

Kate Nichols: 2:05

Well, my family were a very big part of my decision making. I think, I've got two grown up kids. They're now 26 and 24. And they were at home when they wouldn't ordinarily have been because of COVID. And they were witnessing my drinking, which was at home. It wasn't sociable. It was just Drinking, and they, and their dad, my husband, who my husband does like to drink still, he, he'd always pretty much ignored my drinking, even though I think he probably knew it was a bit out of balance. But I think the three of them being at home, three adults being at home, and the fact we weren't going out and the nature of my drinking had become quite clear to them that, I was, behaving in a way that was concerning for them. So they, they did intervene and basically asked me to, to get some, some kind of help really. So that was the turning point for me to actually do something about it.

Barry Condon: 3:00

Wow, that's, that must have been, that must have been hard. I mean, how, how did you come through that period? were you, were you ready to, to, to accept their, their, advice or, or, or the intervention or, or was it? Was it difficult to begin with?

Kate Nichols: 3:14

was very difficult because I, well, I'm, I was 57 when I stopped drinking. I'm 60 now, and I was someone who never had a journey of trying to stop. I was a happy drinker. I was a social drinker. I was aware that my drinking was, You know, I was drinking on my own. I wasn't, you know, I obviously knew, but I was a social drinker as well. I mean, I drank because I felt happy. So I really had never addressed it. And when they cornered me, which is the only way to describe it, it was very difficult because I, like many of us, alcohol, I'd given alcohol a job. I really depended on it. The idea of giving it up was terrifying and, I suddenly saw my life ahead in a very different way, but like they were serious about, me getting some kind of help, to the point that I was, with my daughter was pretty dire. I probably wouldn't be having a relationship with her now. and my husband, he, he really had had enough. I mean, he was talking not of separating, but he was talking about removing himself from the house at the weekends, which is when most of my drinking, happened. So I was very cornered. I probably wouldn't have done anything if that wasn't the case, there and then. And one thing I like to say that happened is that they put the responsibility squarely with me. that was very, very important because they were applying boundaries around themselves, their own preservation, they had had enough. And therefore, I couldn't lie or deceive or carry on going underground. It was clear that my drinking was out of control and they didn't want to be. They said, we can't make you do anything, but we don't have to be around you. You're doing it, and that was the catalyst for

Justine Clark: 5:08

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Kate. I mean, that's difficult to talk about. first of all, I just wanted to say how fabulous you look at 60. I mean, if I can look half as good as you, I'll be super stoked. And also you mentioned before we started, run the park run. Running the park run at 60 is amazing. That means you've got healthy knees, healthy joints. We need all that lubrication. we can't have inflammation in the body. And before we get any further with your story, causes inflammation. We know this. It's, it's like from the health perspective and the fitness perspective, just removing alcohol makes great gains. I want to ask about is that the difficult stuff, like I really resonate with your story around how and protective, we are around our drinking. So to have that covid situation where your kind of patterns of deceiving and hiding and tucking it away, you, you kind of, it's much more difficult if everybody's on you, especially if you are living in, in England in a, in a smaller house. It's not like you can, there's nowhere to hide. It must have felt really difficult. that sensation of feeling trapped in a pattern knowing you were being watched.

6:15

If you're looking to take back control of your drinking, why don't you join our Alcohol Freedom Finders 30 day group program. It's a great place to start. Because we approach it as an experiment, rather than a challenge. Whereas, as well as getting a great detox, you learn the science and the psychology about why you're drunk in the first place. So whether you want to stop altogether, or just become a more mindful and moderate drinker, why don't you give it a crack? Use the link in the show notes to sign up to our next 30 day program, and you won't regret it. Because no one ever woke up in the morning and said, I wish I'd had more to drink last night, did they? Back to the episode.

Justine Clark: 6:56

Give me, I would love to hear a more specific story of that, like is it at the weekend at 3 o'clock and you know you're wanting to do it but you have to, I want to hear a little bit more.

Kate Nichols: 7:10

Yeah, it was horrible because I, I like to say now that it wasn't the person I am, person I organically am. I, I'm not seefulness and I'm not someone who hides or lies or, does all that stuff, but I've become that person. order to drink the amount I needed to drink to get the effect I needed to get. We all know you guys and I, in particular, being coaches about tolerance, that you build a tolerance. So I could open a bottle of wine, visibly in the kitchen and have a glass or two, but that wasn't enough. That wasn't going to do it for me. So I had another bottle going on somewhere. And that was, The case for decades. I mean, it was decades. So what would happen is I would be, I'd get sloppy with it. And my daughter was like onto it and she would follow me and she'd literally catch me.

Justine Clark: 7:58

Oh!

Kate Nichols: 7:59

I felt like swigging a bottle, a bottle, you know, from the bottle in the closet. And I'm a woman in her fifties and there's my daughter. catching me and I

Justine Clark: 8:08

Good.

Kate Nichols: 8:09

that now because I have come through the other end and there is no shame there. There is no judgment. But the thing is, it was ugly. And when you see someone you love so much, and can you imagine the devastation to see her mom doing that?

Barry Condon: 8:26

That's fun. Yeah.

Kate Nichols: 8:27

Yeah.

Barry Condon: 8:28

I mean, that's just given me, you know, flashbacks. It, it, it's goosebumps and flashbacks and, and, and I feel very uncomfortable. but yeah, no, I completely, resonate unfortunately with that, that, that, that, that, yeah, having, having, you know, like my wife used to drink white wine. And I drink red, but I'd be at hers as well. Just, just because, you know, she might think that it was her drinking a bit more than she was, and, and that, that one of the things that got me, finally was, not actually being caught by my children, but my children were a bit younger and weren't fully aware of, of, of, how much of an issue it was, but they were just. The looks on their faces when, you know, if I was drunk and, and the sort of, you know, just, you could see the respect just drawing out of them. And

Kate Nichols: 9:16

yeah,

Barry Condon: 9:16

yeah, it's, it's, it's so, it's so powerful. And, and looking back, it's, it's, it's incredible. It's just to think, you know, we didn't realize that there was a better way, that there was an alternative. We thought that alcohol was the thing we needed to be able to carry on, to be able to deal with life, to be able to have fun, to be able to just get through. It seemed to be the thing, seemed to be the solution. And so getting rid of it just seems so, Yes, it just seems that, you know, everything, we're on the wrong way around. so what was your next step? When you realize, okay, I do have to do something. You know, what, what switched in your mind and what did you, what step did you take?

Kate Nichols: 9:57

Well, I'm very, I can remember it like it was only yesterday, but it was three and a half years ago, when my husband mentioned recovery, I said, no way. I'm not whatever you've got in mind. I'm not doing that. No disrespect to any of it. I, I've not experienced it, but I said, leave it with me. I'm pretty resourceful. I love to read. So I, this is the absolute truth. I Googled quitlet. And I came across this Naked Mind, and the reason I was drawn to it, was because it wasn't, it didn't mention the word quit. It was about how to control your relationship with alcohol. And I'll be really honest with you, at that time, because the thought of being completely alcohol free, I couldn't imagine it. It was too much. So I thought I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a normal drinker. I'm going to learn to be a moderate drinker. so I read the book and oh my gosh, so this book, Annie Grace's Naked Mind, it was talking to me. She was talking to me, everything about it. And I was, that's me. That's me. You dive into the thoughts and the beliefs. And then, Even then I didn't stop. I attempted to moderate. I made promises that I would moderate. I would wouldn't hide. I would not do certain things like drink before I went out. I made all these non negotiables and I had a go very unsuccessfully to moderate. I think it lasted about four to six weeks and at the end of that husband caught me. hiding still. And he said, that was something you said that if you couldn't stop doing, would seriously, stop. You, you have to stop. I knew I had to stop. And that was it. And I willingly, I just said, I'm done. And I, I said, and by the way, so, you know, in the bar, there's a liquor bottles full of water. And that's another big admission. I said, you know, need to know it all. Because I'm done. And that was it. And I never drank again. And then, that was when I got into the work. So I, read The Snake in Mind again. I then joined the five day thing. Even though I wasn't drinking, it is. The snake in mind offer programs. I did the five day. I then joined the path, which is a program. The snake in mind run. It's a year long program and I loved it, but I was one of the, well, if not the only one, not drinking and it was an education and I learned about the methodology we now coach by, and I just decided I'm just so into this work. I want to become a coach and that was the icing on the cake for me. Because I was learning not only to be a non drinker, but to be so happy

Justine Clark: 12:45

Yeah.

Kate Nichols: 12:46

and to be loving life and for everything to be better and my relationships with my family completely repaired. My daughter and I, we talk every day on the phone now. They, I've got their respect. They have seen what I've done. And it's the gift that keeps coming. I say that about Alcohol Freed. And it's the gift that keeps coming because you don't know What else is going to come that's going to be great? And just to your point, just Steve, something you mentioned, and I'd love to share this very, very quickly. You talked about, alcohol causing inflammation. After three months of being alcohol free, I got rid of psoriasis. I used to have it all over my elbow. You can see I've got a tiny bit there, but that was all over there. rosacea of condition of my face high blood pressure. Three things disappeared. and my doctor said to me, cause she knew what I was doing. She said, it's because you've stopped drinking. So isn't that amazing that you can, those chronic health conditions

Justine Clark: 13:51

it is, it is amazing. And then on the, on the very, on a very vain perspective, from very vain perspective, we spend a huge amount of money, on, you know, getting haircuts and doing makeup and all the things that we do. And I was stu stumbled, last week on some photos of this year, last year, this year, three this day, three years ago. And I, I looked at my face and I just felt so sad because not only did my face look puffy and, bloated, but there's like this. This is like the sadness behind the eyes, even though the face is smiling, because that, that, that battle that we were going through each day to, present our best self, when there's another battle going on behind the scenes. and you also spoke to, moderation not being the easiest thing to do. I just wanted to mention there that, I was listening to. Someone spoke to that yesterday about moderation and that we think that we can, the alcohol can still be a reward as long as alcohol

Kate Nichols: 14:48

Mm-hmm

Justine Clark: 14:49

a reward, something that we dangle in front of us. It doesn't matter whether we have days, weeks or months without it. There's still this thing that we're going, if I'm really good, this great thing can happen. So, I know that you know, so I want you to talk a little bit more about it. What is it about this program, the PATH, or any of the other programs, or the coaching that we provide, that demystifies moderation being a reward, or alcohol being the reward?

Kate Nichols: 15:19

Well, it's all about the way you think and believe and for as long as you believe alcohol a purpose and you give it a job to do something essential in your life, while you have that mindset, call it when it's the belief around the self level, it's your identity, you're wired that way in your brain. And it's my belief. you will always have that neural pathway within you. So having a drink, in my opinion, suddenly, because I'm, I was fixated with alcohol and I probably still am, you know, so for me, to have a drink once a week, am I gonna, am I not? How many? What if I can't have that drink? It becomes the cognitive dissonance, which is like the war in the brain continues and not in alignment because you're really wanting that drink still, that treat, whereas you still believe serves a purpose. In my opinion, to remove it altogether is when you get complete freedom, because there's no decision making, we call it decision making fatigue, fixation, when are you going to drink, when aren't you, and that's, you can remove that, and that is removed when you remove alcohol altogether.

Barry Condon: 16:39

Yeah, I can, I can, I can, Attest to that. I mean, I myself, I struggled for years and years, to try and moderate and but without knowing any of the science behind it and and a bit like yourself, I stopped and then went in search of how do I make this? Okay, how do I make this right? And and and look for for for for quick lit and and and found, Annie Grace quite quickly. but yeah, I Yeah, I don't know. I think, I think for, I mean, I would like to, to, to, to think that, and we've had people, through our programs that are able to, better, moderate their drinking and set themselves, boundaries and non negotiables. And, but I think, I think, I think, Justin has often said that, yeah, she feels, that once you've sort of overstretched, your boundaries on drinking, it's difficult for to, you know, a bit like an overstretched piece of elastic, that it's not gonna come back again. And so for, for, maybe for us, if we've, we've, got the history that we've had that it's just easier to, to, to, to say no. and, and, and, and I guess for me, the ultimate is that the, the, the process is the same either way. you begin to see. alcohol for what it is. and, you stop believing that it's the be all and end all and you realize you don't need it to have fun and you realize it's taking more than it gives. And so ultimately the ultimate destination of that journey is you will, you, you won't want it at all. you know, like you said, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's something we'd like to keep the door open for because people, it's just about understanding and being curious and, and, from a health perspective, you know, if your goal is to drink less, then this is the, this is the methodology that will allow you to drink less. put alcohol in a place where it becomes less and less important to you and and will facilitate, you know, that process, and won't make it, you know, something that you're doing on on the basis of willpower and, just sort of forcing yourself not to do something. You're actually, doing something else because that's what you want. is that, is that something that resonates with you at all?

Kate Nichols: 18:46

I, have seen moderation work with people, but I would say that it's only possible if other things are more important in their lives. So

Barry Condon: 18:56

Hmm.

Kate Nichols: 18:56

that while the fixation remains, it is very difficult. I think it does demand. Well, I think it does demand willpower if you are a drinker like I was, because I would always be wanting that second, third, fourth drink. That's me, I'm white, but some people can, but my experience of seeing it work for people is when other things are more important to them, they're able to put it in its place and they are able to exercise control. I personally would find that a lot of hard work. but I can see how it's attractive because let's face it, it's societally, people drink to socialize, to be with each other. It's, it's, you do feel a little bit like a fish out of water if you're the only one not drinking. You are a bit of an oddball still. I mean, that's changing, but it still can feel like that. So if you can just have a glass of wine. But I'm to the point now, after three and a half years, I've just got no interest in having a glass of wine. Why would I have a glass of wine if it's only going to make me want to have five? It's so much easier just to have none. but, you know, each to their own. And this is about controlling your relationship with alcohol. So we don't, as coaches, ever tell anybody what to do. We give them the education and the knowledge so that they can inform themselves to make the choice that's

Justine Clark: 20:17

Oh,

Kate Nichols: 20:17

for

Justine Clark: 20:17

I so agree with that, Kate. And you talk about, fitness perspective as well. And I sort of see us as more of, like personal trainers in the, in the alcohol space. So we're actually, we changed the belief with the program. So for example, we talk about the, the visceral memory of gulping the wine in the cupboard that you talk about and how that makes us feel. And we measure that up against now going and having a glass of wine, what that could make us feel. For me, the two now, sit side by side. So there is no part of me that would want to have the glass of wine because I really don't want to be the person that would, that would do the other ever again. So almost instantly, and that's the belief transformation, that's the reframing, that's the coaching work that we do. Individually, we sort of help you train yourself to one against the other. So willpower is no longer important. and also I think with coaching, you talked about feeling like the, we're still feeling like the oddball socially. So we get the big stuff out of the way. We get the, I don't want to, I don't want to drink out of the way, but what about fitting in socially? What about all the, the day to day stuff that takes a whole bunch of, of time? reframing as well. How do you feel about, how coaching can help with the, the oddball sensation? I

Kate Nichols: 21:54

staying in your own lane, deciding what you want to do, and staying true to your convictions. And, Not making anybody else responsible for our behavior. So, I'd say just, it is hard at the beginning because you feel so like, you know, the odd fish out of water, the odd, the odd ball. You, you feel very strange, but the more you practice, like, You know, reps, sober reps, you know, the more you do it, experience becomes our teacher, I like to say, so it becomes more normal and more normal as time goes on. And if you want to be a non drinker, you have to navigate that, that arena. And, I would say that now I'm very comfortable with it, but I still face it. especially when I go on holiday, say sometimes, in different cultures, different, different parts of the world and everything that, that people still will give you shots or whatever, join in. And they, they're offended when you don't join in. It's like they say, they take it personally, but I'd say really, just make your mind up, have your, answers ready. if you're not comfortable saying you don't drink, say you, you're driving or say that you're just taking a break or have your ready answers. But I think it's really important to stay true and not to be bullied into people pleasing or doing it for anybody else. That's the main, message I would probably give. And before you know it, like anything, it becomes the norm and you navigate it smoothly and, and, and, and because you just so know that this is, this is how you want to live.

Barry Condon: 23:24

That's really good. Really good. And I think it, it really helps, understanding why you're doing things and, and, and finding for yourself. A positive reason why, so you've got something to go towards and, and be happy to be going away from, from, from how alcohol was treating you and to go towards something, something more rewarding. so tell us a bit about, you know, the, the lighter side of things, how, how has life been since, since stopping and, and how has it changed your life? And I've got a feeling you, you, you've moved and you, you move around the world, you travel a lot. tell us a bit about that.

Kate Nichols: 24:00

Well, I live in Canada, I'm British, I, I would say, the traveling thing, I travel a lot, my husband and I, we, we've, we've been to Asia, South, South America, Hawaii, and we've just booked a trip to Marrakesh, we, actually met as backpackers in Australia back in the day when we were first together. And then we always had a love of, you know, Well, we were backpackers. We were kind of hippie ish, you know, and, so we always said when we became empty nesters, we would try and reignite that, that type of, of traveling and we have. But the reason I'm mentioning it in significance here is that, I now love holidays, getting up really, really early with the sunrises, I want to go to places where I can see the sunrise, Cambodia. like that. and the kind of holidays we have now are very much experiences where living as a non, a non drinker, you really experienced them, in a healthy way. when I was newly alcohol free, my husband and I went to Ireland because we go back to England quite a lot and we used to love the pub culture. we would, it was a driving holiday and my husband had us booked into pubs every night and it wasn't his fault. I didn't communicate really how this was going to be an issue for me because I was very newly, a non drinker. With no offense, he won't listen to this, but I'll say it to you guys, the listeners, when you're with someone in the car 24 7, I really do not want to sit in a pub with them for another three hours at night while they sit and get drunk. So I have to say, look, the type of holidays we're having now, I want them to be different. And my husband's such a supporter. he, his level of drinking is at a different level than mine ever was. And he supports me and we do these holidays where we're kind of in bed by nine, cause we get up at five 36 and see the sunrise. And so a bit of a long winded answer, but life is so good. So basically, well, self development training to become a coach, doing something that I would never thought. I was capable of, so, my ability, my public speaking. I speak on panels. I do things like this, my relationship with my kids and my friends who, support me. Not all of them do like it, but most of them do, is just phenomenal. And, I'd say I, I like myself. I look better. everything is better. Whereas when I was a drinker, I was out of balance in that I, well, I self loathed. I knew I was damaging myself. I probably would have done some serious damage had I carried on drinking. I probably wouldn't have a relationship with my daughter. I don't know about my marriage. whereas now I've got such purpose. I've met so many wonderful people, even like yourselves, you know, and everything is, it's just so, I just can't wait to get up in the morning, everything. And then of course you feel so well because you, you you have enthusiasm, you're, you're the wellest you can be, you're, you're optimal best. touch wood because, our health is a gift, know, but, well, we are healthy. It, it, it's a bonus for sure. It really is. So you can tell how it, how enthusiastic I am

Justine Clark: 27:19

totally can tell how enthusiastic you are and I resonate, I resonate with that so much as well. I mean, who thinks about when they're planning the holiday? about waking up every morning with a stinking hangover and feeling slightly groggy. Actually, we probably all want to be planning the beautiful sunrise and the amazing sunset, but the reality of holidays in the past was probably more the latter. You know, waking up feeling a bit, Oh God, I've got to push through this because I'm on holiday. I've got to make the most of it. But being on holiday also includes the rewards of drinking at the end. So removing that, using the coaching and the community. And I think the coaching and the community is what gives us the strength to flex these new muscles. It's like personal training, as I said earlier, because it's hard to do it alone. All three of us have found our success by, by being in community. So, no matter how our audience are going to find community, finding people, finding ways, finding activities that, that take us away from the old watering holes and looking towards the, the Cambodian sunrises, you know, that certainly is the way forward for me. And that's, that's the magic, that's the gold. Kate, we're getting to that time where it's time to ask you what three words would you have for us, about becoming an alcohol freedom finder.

Kate Nichols: 28:44

Right. So I thought about this and, three words really, stick out to me. So one is freedom. my coaching is Freedom Effect. That's, that is the name of my coaching because I feel that it is liberating and freeing. There's nothing, there's no deprivation. It's freedom. the other one is health because I incorporate, I'm also a fitness instructor, but health is everything to me. So health and wellness is very important, but the most important, probably one for me personally, is relationships. So I'd say freedom, health and relationships, because my relationships have been transformed, as a result of me not drinking, especially with my family, who are the most important people to me. So that is, has been just the, the, the icing on the cake. It really has.

Barry Condon: 29:31

That's brilliant. I think they might be my three words as well. I don't know. I'm not really actually come up with my own ones, but that those have got to be pretty close. Really, really good. It's been great having you on Kate. let people know where they can find you and what sort of services, you offer as a coach.

Kate Nichols: 29:46

Okay, great. Well, my website is got all my social handles on so I'm a freedom affect that is important. affect. So not effect. So freedom affect. A F F E C T. I've got my Instagram on there. That's Kate, sobriety and fitness. As for my coaching, I'm a one on one coach, but recently I have communities as well. I have a free community. you can find that on my website, which I just really offer, space, Zoom space and meeting space for people, to come on and chat. And then I have, other, community, another community as well. So, yeah. Yeah, I love this work. I feel very gifted that I'm able to do it and I would just love to help anybody who sees themselves in my story or would like to reach out. It would be a privilege for me to talk to you.

Justine Clark: 30:39

Kate. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure talking with you

Barry Condon: 30:43

Yeah. Thanks very much, Kate.

Kate Nichols: 30:44

for having

Barry Condon: 30:45

See you again soon.

Kate Nichols: 30:46

Thank you.