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This is Alcohol Freedom Finders. In this episode, we meet Judy who in her youth used weed, cocaine, amphetamines, uppers, downers, you name it. She took them all. But age 23 when the fun stopped, she quit them all without much effort. All that is except alcohol. She describes alcohol as her demon. Her story will knock your socks off. And if you're thinking demons require exorcism, priests, and God, you won't be disappointed. This is a story like no other. Let's get started.

Barry Condon: 0:33

Welcome to Alcohol Freedom Finders with me, Barry Condon and Justine Clark. Today, we are excited to have with us from Vermont in the United States, Judy Daigle. Judy is a TNM coach like Justine and myself. And, is also, an expert in the ALP, side of things, the, the, the psychology, psychology method that, that perhaps, Judy will tell us about later, that, this naked mind, is now, using. And she is a specialist in the opioid world. So she uses her, knowledge, from this naked mind, as a coach and is, applying it to the, opioid, area. And, we're just really excited to hear all about that and to hear a little bit more about, Judy's own story. So welcome Judy.

Justine Clark: 1:24

welcome Judy. It's absolutely awesome to have you here. I'm super excited to hear about your journey. we've known you for a while now and I always love talking to you. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your story and what led you to This Naked Mind and becoming alcohol free.

Judy Daigle: 1:40

Oh, hi guys. Thanks for having me. this is really exciting. I think the work you're doing is just fabulous. so I'm here mostly I mean, alcohol story, I've had it since 12 years old, you know, stealing from grandpa, or not grandpa, but grandma, and, and, and drinking lots of alcohol, having lots of, substance use all the way through high school, all the way into my, until I was about 23, I was polysubstance user. all through high school. And ironically, the story that always kills everybody is like, yeah, but you were president of the class. You were president of the band. You played first chair trumpet, blah, blah, blah. But I was also right out in the football field with all the weed dress smokers. And so I was president of all the clubs, you know? so I stopped hard drugs when I was 23 and I did all the drugs except opiates, ironically. they made me sick. Couldn't do them. Thank God. and, so then from 23 until the age of probably 49, I struggled drinking huge, hard liquor. Huge, huge, huge. But again, I went to school. I was a GPA, high GPA. So it was really hard for me to struggle. to understand like, Oh, stop drinking, stop drinking, stop drinking. Or, you know, I, cause I, I could function. I was successful. I stopped drinking at the age of 49. But what's interesting about that is that I started my business. I've been in business myself since 2006, working with people with opiate dependence. So I helped the needle out of their arm and then helped them transition into a functioning health, you know, whatever is their goal in life. so what happened for me to become alcohol free, I struggled. I struggled and I struggled. and I did everything, everything possible and nothing worked. So back in those days, that was what year, I don't know, 49. I was like 20. It was before Annie. Anyway, Annie came out before Annie came out. It was like 2009. Yeah. now I'm dating myself. Awesome. so we're like 2009. And what happened to me was I, my parents had some friends who I had a priest friend and I went their house and the priest was listening and, and he was doing what we call it in the Catholicism, we call it lifetime confession. So, I went and I went and did my confession and all this and that, but I never talked about drinking because, Who talked about that? It's like, yeah, all right, I drank, but so what? anyways, he was praying over me, and I was on my knees, and the woman from the house was kneeling beside me, and he was praying over me, and all of a sudden he leans into my ear, And he says, Jesus just healed you of your alcoholism. And so I sat there on my knee or I was on my knees and I thought, Hmm, right. My first thought was, how dare you call me alcoholic? Right. I mean, that was my, how dare you call me alcoholic, but that was the truth. So like a good person with, with. alcohol issues. I came home, I promptly tried to drink. Couldn't do it. next day, I tried to drink because people who were living with me at the time, we all drank. That was what we did, right? We drank, we had dinner, we drank wine, we drank scotch, we did all those things. I haven't been able to drink since that situation. So, so, And I can't deny it. I can't deny it at all. You know, I've had a lot of miraculous things in my life, but that was like the big one.

Barry Condon: 5:29

That's amazing. I just. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think we'll ever hear a story quite as amazing as that. That's,

Justine Clark: 5:36

and I'm

Barry Condon: 5:37

So, Yeah, yeah. So how was that then? So what, so what was next? I mean, you hadn't done any of the work. You hadn't, hadn't, you know, worked out how and why and what you'd struggled, hadn't been able to do it. And then. It just, as if you would sort of, yeah, cured or at least you couldn't do it anymore. And so then what?

Judy Daigle: 6:00

That was it. I mean, I, and I would go, I'd go to family functions where, cause that's what we do. I mean, the culture in my family was drink, celebrate, drink, celebrate. Oh, look, there's a new Scotch out. Oh, look, you know, celebrate the alcohol in and of itself. And so we go to family functions and I would, I'd try to have a beer and I'd get like a little bit in and just that little feeling you start to feel as the alcohol is kicking in. It made me sick, sick. So I said, you know, this is God's way of saying to me, I know you're going to drink through this Judy, so we're just going to make you sick so you won't. And that, and that is really, I've not. So when I came into Naked Mind and I'm watching people talk about their struggle and all this and that, I'm like, I know the struggle. I completely know the struggle. I know the struggle with drugs. I know it with alcohol, but how to take the steps to stop. I was never successful that. the only way I could absolutely stop was I was healed. I mean, it was that simple or I would still be, I'd be dead. I wouldn't be, it wouldn't be a matter of still drinking. I'd be dead. So that's, that's the, my alcohol free bit.

Justine Clark: 7:15

I mean, that is such an incredible story. like I said, I am slightly jealous, because I wish it had been like that for me to just have a moment where everything turns. but first of all, I just wanted to circle back and say, I loved what you said about that you were the president of everything, I think, a lot of the reason why people who suffer with substance and alcohol in particular, can't move forward is because they tend to be overachievers. They tend to be people who are good at everything. So not only are they overachievers, they're over drinkers. I think that's a really salient point and really good because people who are good at things are also very good at drinking and you know, the shame, the shame and the guilt and the regret is even greater. So tell us more. What then led you to this naked mind itself?

Judy Daigle: 8:08

So what led me to this naked mind, I have worked, like I've said, since ironically I started this business, I was still drinking. Okay, I would go into, would go into groups and I'd be watching the clock, watching the clock, like, okay, group's got to be done because I have to get to the package store before it closes so I can buy beer so I can go before home, right? was crazy. Here I am trying to tell people how to not be addicted and I had no control of my own alcohol. So after Jesus healed me, I, I started looking at addiction 101 and I'm not saying there's not use in it, but I started looking at the methodologies of how people, you know, looking at the stages of readiness, looking at all the stages of addiction, looking at all the stages of You know, all the times people have been in and out of rehabs, all of those things, and it wasn't working. People are still, they would go, because right, right now in my practice, I have a doctor who prescribes Suboxone, and what happens is, he does the medical piece, so people come off the street with the needles in their arms and then they go on to Suboxone which helps take out the withdrawal symptoms. So then that helps them to calm down so they can then start functioning and starting on the journey that they want to go to for their goals, right, in their life. but I'm watching all this and I'm like, now people are stuck on Suboxone. Now they've gone from a full agonist, which is like, you know, heroin and methadone and Oxycontin and those kinds of things. And now they're on Suboxone, which is a semi agonist, but now they're, they're dependent on it. They're physiologically and psychologically dependent on it. So I'm like, all the methodologies I'm trying to use that I've learned in my studies, because I have a master's, weren't working. They're not working. So in searching, It was June. I mean, I found this Naked Mind. I took the June 2023 class and I think I found Naked Mind five days before the class started. It just popped up on a feed somewhere and by the grace of God, I said, all right, this is a new methodology. Let's try it. So now I'm working to do a study. I'm doing a beta study if this in fact will work to help people. get off of suboxone.

Barry Condon: 10:28

That's brilliant. And I think by the sounds of it, that what you were looking for was, yeah, a different approach. And I think that's what this naked mind has. It doesn't just look at the behavior and trying to stop you from doing one thing or another, like stop you drinking. I know that Annie says, you know, endlessly, you know, we don't look at the behavior, the behavior takes care of itself. If you can learn, something that makes you think different thoughts and feel a different way and have different beliefs about, particularly about the things that we, we run to in, in a drug or in alcohol, the things that attract us, the things that we perceive to be benefits, the things that we think are, doing us a favor. she allows us to, to. To, to, to learn the science and see the psychology, see the neurochemistry. The way that the dopamine, system keeps pulling us back that actually it's, you know, you keep going back for relief. You keep going back for relief, and every time you get that relief, it's leaving behind the memories and the urges for the next, the next hit or, or, or the next drink. when did you sort of start for yourself to sort of see the. That you, I think, because the way that we sort of look at it now is you think, well, alcohol seems to get a free pass, whereas, you know, people think of, opiates and, and, and another sort of hard drugs as, as, something to be concerned about and things that you can get addicted to very easily, but, but think of alcohol as something that, you know, only some people, will, will become addicted to. and it sounds like for a while you've even yourself gave yourself a free pass that, you know, I can run to the liquor store, while I'm helping these poor people who have an addiction. But

Judy Daigle: 12:12

So it's really interesting, Barry, because, my experience with addiction, I mean, I was a multi polysubstance user, right? And, and I stopped all the other things, but alcohol was super hard and I couldn't do it. Right. And so the people that in my office, many of them polysubstance, right? Many of them cocaine, alcohol, weed. So if you parallel alcohol and opiate, And you want to look at the peril, they're just as destructive. The alcohol, I mean, what's interesting to me is, and even within my practice, the stigma, right? People, the stigma with opiates is huge, right? Even among people who use opiates. about an alcohol. Well, alcohol, that's no stigma. It's legal, That's, I mean, these are people in my office that tell me this, that, that alcohol is legal. So it's, there's no stigma because you can go to the liquor store and you can do this and that. Yet when they go to AA, cause some of my folks, you know, their, their community providers will say, to AA, this and that, but if they're on suboxone, well, you're still using, right? Even though suboxone isn't meant to help them not use. mind, there's a stigma there. When they go to the pharmacy, there's stigma there. But in their minds, alcohol doesn't have the stigma. Which, but, ask them to stop drinking, right? And so I'm doing, I have three people that are pretty heavy drinkers, and dangerously so. Because you can't take Suboxone. It all works in the brainstem, right? It's all, it all just works in the brainstem, and won't, I always tell them, you won't suffer. You just won't wake up, and everybody else will suffer, you know? So, I don't know that, Maybe I've gone off, I veered off your question. I just think that when we look at the world, a drug is a drug is a drug and, and, and alcohol gives us dopamine hits like crazy, right? I used alcohol to escape feelings. I used alcohol to cope. I used alcohol for all those things. And then I used alcohol just to survive because I couldn't, I was so physically dependent on it, I couldn't.

Barry Condon: 14:26

When did you get, when did you see that, that was the same as anybody else or any of the guys that are struggling with opiates?

Judy Daigle: 14:34

alcohol use, you? mean?

Barry Condon: 14:36

Mm,

Judy Daigle: 14:36

thought alcohol was worse. Honestly. I thought from my experience, because I could stop cocaine, I could stop all the amphetamines, I could stop all the downers and uppers and everything else I was taking, I stopped all those. Without cocaine, much of a to do. Alcohol, I could not. alcohol was my demon. Alcohol was more than anything, but because, oh, it's legal. I can go to the liquor store, blah, blah. know, so what? I just fell out of the bar on the sidewalk. I'm laying there in the middle of Boston. So what? Ha ha, look at her. She's drunk. So, but if somebody, I mean, to me, how is that not as bad when we walk down the street and somebody's all nodding out, right? It doesn't matter what we're

Justine Clark: 15:22

I

Judy Daigle: 15:23

It's interesting because, yes, this

Justine Clark: 15:25

think it comes back to that. You know, we're good people. So we're doing something that we're

Judy Daigle: 15:30

rest of

Justine Clark: 15:30

to do. So that gave us this kind of call pass to carry on with it.

Judy Daigle: 15:34

Boom!

Justine Clark: 15:34

And what Barry was saying earlier about it being, Something that relieved us, something that scratched an itch, so that's why we did it, and yet the back of our minds, in our subconscious mind, the mind that this naked mind works on, is you just know deep down that it feels wrong, you know it's wrong, and you know it's making you feel terrible, and that's what this naked mind looks at, that part, And actually thinking about your, your moment where you, where, you know, you had that connection with, with the priest who leaned into, he completely connected with you, completely heard you, spoke to your subconscious through Jesus, and you felt that relief yourself. Without the substance for the first time perhaps. So your relief and your, your deep need was met and you were completely seen. I think what this naked mind allows, I don't know, I'm just, I'm just thinking things through for myself Judy. It's the first time I've thought about it this way, but I'd like you to speak to that. But what I'm, what I'm sort of seeing here is that this naked mind allows us to And I think it's important for others to see for themselves what you managed to experience in that special moment.

Judy Daigle: 17:06

It was done. It was gone. And I had no choice in the matter. So then to look at the feelings and then to experience all of that, you're right, naked mind does. And I'm doing that with some of my folks on Suboxone right now for the first time in their lives. Someone's asked them, well, how do you feel about where you are in your journey to not use anything? And, and naked mind has allowed me. That I mean just like when we talk to people about alcohol. Well, how do you feel about your alcohol? You know, we had talked earlier about well, if you were gonna say to somebody like what was one of your questions about? What would you say to somebody if they wanted to look at their relationship to reframe their relationship with alcohol Right? I would probably say, well, why? What's going

Justine Clark: 17:54

Yeah.

Judy Daigle: 17:55

Why? What do you think about it? What do you feel about alcohol? What do you feel about Suboxone? What do you feel about weed? What do you feel about any of that? Right? Because think if someone had asked me that, I probably, no one did. But if someone had, probably would have said, I am scared to death because this thing has a life of its own. And

Justine Clark: 18:16

Hmm.

Judy Daigle: 18:17

me, and no one gets that. No one, people just say, oh, just stop drinking. Or just, no, just say no, oh no, you're a piece of garbage because you can't control it. B. S. I had my own business. I had, I was, you know, all of these successful entrepreneur things, and all these leadership management things. It doesn't matter. It had a life of its own, and no one asked me, how do you feel about it? And that's what, that's the brilliance of Naked Mind. do you feel about it? It's huge.

Barry Condon: 18:55

And I think, I think that's the, that's the crux of the, the, the a LP, effective liminal psychology that, that, that Annie has now sort of formalized the way that she approaches it. and you're right. It, it's, it's about how we feel. because logically, anybody who's, overusing anything knows, you know, this is not good for me. They know, that they will be better off without it. and they'd like to be without it. They'd like to be able to, cope with, the day to day without needing to go there. but you know, as, and he sort of focuses on, you know, there are two sides going on in our, in our brain. and they both want the best for you, but the powerful subconscious that makes actually 95 percent of our choices for us Thinks that, running after the dopamine and doing the easy thing you know, it's a survival mechanism that goes after pleasure and safety and whatever makes us feel good. And, in some situations that's really good, but in this situation, it's not, and you need to get in there and, kind of reason with that part of your brain, if you're going to make any progress and actually feel free, in the end and not just someone who's able to resist temptation.

Judy Daigle: 20:03

think, you know, you said something, we go for the dopamine hit because it makes it easier. Does it? You know, when I was looking at the, pre this and really thinking about it, I thought, you know what, what is the big deal for me right now to be alcohol free? The big deal is clarity. The big deal is freedom. Even in my most hardest emotions, you know, even when I'm struggling with people die and, or this and that, I mean, heavy, heavy, real emotions. When I think about that, is it really easier if I just could run out and get drunk? I don't think so. I don't think so, because why? Number one, I'm not in my life. I'm running out and I've got something else taking over my life. Right? And number two, tomorrow I'm going to hate myself. So now I'm not only my grieving, you know, or whatever emotional stuff I'm going on. Tomorrow I'm going to be Six times as bad because why because I've got all this other junk on top So the dopamine hit is very temporary and well, Andy talks about like 20 minutes, right? Have a drink have a drink and then wait 20 minutes and see how it goes I don't know. I I was thinking about that and I thought really in the whole freedom bit alcohol free means Like you don't have that monkey on your back all the time,

Justine Clark: 21:26

It's, I absolutely love that. And I think, you've really sort of summarized beautifully how this naked mind takes alcohol from sitting on your lap and puts it with science and psychology on the other side of the room. It gives you the space. That's what the freedom is.

Judy Daigle: 21:42

right?

Justine Clark: 21:42

The space between you and substance and how are you finding the BTTS going for you so far, Judy? I'm really interested to know how it's going with the opioids. Yeah,

Judy Daigle: 21:56

really interesting is, right, everybody, society, society, society, right, we all fall prey, alcohol's everywhere, and then, oh, you're on Suboxone, you're never gonna get off Suboxone, I'm here to tell you there's hope, here to tell you, yes, you can get off Suboxone, but people are so afraid, they're so afraid, because why? Because they get on YouTube, and they watch things, and, oh, oh, oh, you can't do this, you can't do that, people get so scared. And I think that's also true with alcohol. People like, Oh, I'm hanging on alcohol because alcohol's all I know. It's the same as cigarettes, right? When you stop cigarettes. When I stopped smoking, I cried for a week. It was like, Oh, where's my best friend. mean, right. So it's the same. It's the same. And. But the fear, they're so afraid, or are you afraid you're going to use, I ask them. Are you afraid you're going to use again? No, done with that. I'm not going to do the lifestyle. I'm not going to buy on the streets. I'm done with all that. Okay, well, what are you afraid of? I don't want to be sick. Oh, because you've never been sick before. I mean, and, and what do you mean you're going to be sick? Well, everybody on YouTube or people. And, and so my focus right now, because this is brand new in my practice, my focus right now is to really help people understand that they are who they are and their experience is their experience and to stop listening to everybody else.

Barry Condon: 23:18

That's brilliant. I think, I think it's important that people understand also that, that, that change is possible, that they can, you know, it is the substance that they're taking, that's making. And that they're not broken. They're not, and I think we've talked about before about labels and how important is the language that we use. And traditionally people put a label on people and say, okay, you're an alcoholic, you're an addict, you're, you know, someone who's, you know. In recovery forever, looking over their shoulder and, and you better watch out. I think what, what, this naked mind and, and, and the way that we, we practice in the way that we believe is that actually you can get past it. I don't consider myself. You know, IS smoked for, for 20 years and, and, and stopped 10 years ago. But I don't consider myself a, you know, a, a cig cigarette addict still, you know, I, I, I don't consider, consider myself, you know, a, a cigarette aholic, that has to be careful of cigarettes. I don't want anything to do with'em anymore. I'm past that. and I'm, I'm really, really glad about it. And the same with alcohol. is, is that something that you could, you could speak to

Judy Daigle: 24:23

that's like, ooh, Barry, now you hit a soft one. it all ends with ick. ick. Ick. You are not Ick. A, you are not Ick and B, Ick is a label and you are a person. know, you're a mom, you're a dad, you're a brother, you're a sister, you're a, you're a friend and, and you have gray hair, you have white hair, you have blue hair. I don't care what you have, who you are. You have a dependence on whatever this substance is. You have a psychological dependence, you have a physiological dependence, but that doesn't make you, that's not your identification. You are not ik. I'm gonna make a shirt. Lost ik.

Justine Clark: 25:03

I love that because that's what they say in this sort of Modern dating programs that they stop dating someone because they give them the ick So that's just hilarious. So don't give me the ick. I love that. instead of, being given the ick, what three words would you use, Judy, to summarize what it is to be, an alcohol freedom finder?

Judy Daigle: 25:24

Wow, you know, that's so big, so big. My own is miraculous. My own story is miraculous. And everybody, just the fact that you're standing and listening or listening to this, or whatever you're doing, are a miracle. Period. Right? You are a miracle. There's nothing above and beyond that. You are a miracle. Just your being here. So, of course there's hope. There's always hope. We all get lost. We all get tied into the ick the world. But in general, you're, you're a miracle. The next part, my second word is surrender. why surrender? Because there's something bigger than us. And if we, I call him God and that's my frame. Other people frame different. but in that creation, the bigger than us takes care of us. This is my, my belief. and that I wouldn't even be here, honest to God. I could tell you horror stories about when I was in the darkness, but now that I'm here, and my job is to help people understand that my job is to help people that their creator loves them immensely, right? I mean, you're created, you're a miracle. And so why wouldn't the creator love the miracle? Why? It just makes sense. Right? And then my third one is gratitude. just because I'm, I'm, I'm just incredibly grateful that I, every day I wake up and thank God that, Oh, no more substance. Thank you, Jesus. Now, my whole big thing is if he'd help me with sugar, that's fine. I put in my, my request, you know, a little bit of sugar, please. if we could just deal with that. but those are my words is miraculous, surrender and gratitude. And I'm very grateful for this opportunity. Cause you guys are just the best.

Barry Condon: 27:14

Judy, that's brilliant. Yeah, that, that's just a really lovely way to some your story up and your journey up. if people want to get in touch with you, and follow you is there a way that people can and should get in touch with you?

Judy Daigle: 27:26

I do have a website, many roads coaching.com. So I don't, I'm not on Instagram yet. I'm not on any of that. I'm, I'm, I'm a work in progress in that regard. and I, all of my contact info is on that webpage. So it's many roads coaching.com.

Justine Clark: 27:45

Judy, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us. They are you're always just a pleasure to be with you. So full of light. and you're also incredibly funny and we're so grateful to have you with us. So thank you so much for your time.

Judy Daigle: 27:58

you both. It's been lovely. Thank you very much.